[leasbirds] Re: Flycatcher ID

From: Hotmail <len_hovey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: leasbirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 23:32:08 -0500

Thank you all again for the great conversation about this mystery flycatcher. I’ve learned so much from the amazing wealth of knowledge you all have! I ordered a copy of the Kaufman book on Jennifer’s recommendation.
My dad has an incredible full set of leather bound Peterson’s Field Guides and Kaufman’s Advanced Birding is a classic in the series with a great section on these flycatchers.
I’m thrilled he put out a radically expanded new edition.
-Len

On Aug 15, 2022, at 9:31 PM, Jennifer Miller <foundnatureblog@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It is a fun puzzle! Even with experience, flycatchers can still be frustrating because some just can’t be identified by appearance but I love the challenge! I’m glad that you seem to, too, Joe!
Yes, primarily projection is only one of the ID traits to consider for a flycatcher but it is also one of the most important. It is one of the first things, if not the first thing, you should look at on a flycatcher. Once you see the primary projection (ideally from a couple of angles or over a few minutes as the bird moves), you can begin to narrow down the possibilities. In the end, that’s what birding is: gathering enough information to start eliminating other birds until you (hopefully) end up with only one. When I found the Sanderling a few weeks ago, I went though a list in my head considering ANY other bird that it could be and used field marks as I watched it to eliminate each of those birds until the only logical conclusion was a Sanderling. Same goes for flycatchers, you have to build a case and if the ID marks start to go against your case then you have to start the process of elimination over again. But back to primary projections :) This is a much better pic to get an idea of the primary projection than the first pic because the wing looks at rest. I would call this a short primary projection. You are right, though, all three of the species you are considering have similar primary projections so this field mark doesn’t help us much in differentiating the three. Determining a flycatcher’s primary projection takes experience. At one time I too considered a primary projection like this to be significant; until I started paying attention to other flycatchers’ primary projections. My advice is to really pay attention the next time you find a wood-pewee. Theirs are so long that everything else is an “in relation” comparison for me. And you have to see each species multiple times, once you know the ID, while paying attention to the primary projection to really begin to build a reference in your head. The easiest is to start with less confusing species to build your reference; like Olive-sided and wood-pewees. Wood-pewees’ projections are so long they become easier to ID. Does it have a plain face and a really long primary projection? Wood-pewee! Each season I have to refresh that reference. That goes for all the difficult families: projections in flycatchers, bill and body lengths in shorebirds, mask patterns in warblers, etc.
In my experience, Willow flycatchers have more muted/less bright wingbars and lined tertials. That’s part of what makes me lean towards a Least - theirs are generally bright. I don’t know whether I’m correct about your bird though. Look at some pictures of the two from a source that should have them ID’d correctly and see what you think. Note: even eBird has some misidentified pictures running around so don’t take any pic that looks wrong at face value.

This flycatcher might still be unidentifiable with the information that we have but you’re on the right path, Joe!
Jennifer
Jennifer MillerLubbock, TX
(o,o) /)_) " "Email: foundnatureblog@xxxxxxxxx
Blog: https://foundnature.weebly.com/
On Aug 15, 2022, at 8:02 PM, Heppert, Joseph A. <jheppert@xxxxxx> wrote:

Jennifer,
So, reading through the Kaufman's material, it looks as if primary extensions can be an indication of species...and some of the lower quality photos of this bird from the back show a significant primary extension.
However, it turns out that Least, Alder and Willow all exhibit some level of primary extension. So, we still have a Flycatcher, but I am not sure this helps distinguish between the three options.
Fun puzzle! Thanks for the reference material.

Joe

From: leasbirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <leasbirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Jennifer Miller <foundnatureblog@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2022 10:56 PM
To: leasbirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <leasbirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [leasbirds] Re: Flycatcher ID Good picture, Joe! The vest, strong wingbars, and brightly lined terials still make me lean towards a Least. This pic even shows a more well-defined eye ring. I'm not 100% certain though. The tail on this individual looks wide here (Least usually have a narrow tail) but you can also tell from the pic that it is at least a little flared. If you want to learn more about the nuances of flycatchers, I have found Kaufman's Field Guide to Advanced Birding very useful.
One more note: you mentioned Willow and Alder as two of the three choices earlier. Generally, these two species are not separable unless they vocalize. They used to be one species and were split but are virtually identical in plumage (at least Eastern Willow and Alder). Western Willows are supposed to be a little different, but I do not have experience with Alder Flycatchers to understand the differences myself.
Jennifer

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 7:13 PM Heppert, Joseph A. <jheppert@xxxxxx> wrote:

Jennifer…
Probably best of the photos.
Your thoughts? Willow?
Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Heppert, Joseph A. <jheppert@xxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks, Jennifer.
I’ll look through the other pictures I have for some of the details you mentioned.
Several definitives. No, it did not return to the same perch while working. It moved through a region of the bushes, but did not seem to have a roosting preference.
Also, it was not twitchy. No tail flicks or common motions while not flying were evident.
Thanks for your help.
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Melody Huffman <biblebarn3432@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

For us the gnat catchers and verios are hard to identify. One has a tad of a top notch and the other doesn't. We thought we had a Bells verio two weeks ago. Rounded head and no top notch. Others thought a gnatcatcher. Who knows?!?! With this extreme dryness all the migratory paths are jumbled together maybe.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 3:25 PM Jennifer Miller <foundnatureblog@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Joe,
Don’t apologize! This is what the listserv is for! It’s not just you; flycatchers are hard and even harder in pics when you can’t watch behavior or silhouette changes as the bird forages, is alarmed, at rest, etc. For almost any flycatcher, though, we’re going to need to see more.
Primary projection (how far the folded primaries extend from the other flight feathers) which you can almost see in this pic, but since the flycatcher isn’t at rest here, it’s hard to be sure how long it is.
Tail length and shape - looks short here but am I seeing it all? Is it really thick like it looks or is it bc the bird is active?
Front - is there a “vest”? Speckled undertail coverts?
Eye ring - looks broken here but since the pic is a little blurry I’m not sure
Bill color - you gave us this!
It’s also good to note whether it liked to return to the same perch while flycatching, a different perch each time, and whether it preferred low, middle, or high perches. Did it flick its wings or tail frequently? Pump its tail? None of these things are definitive, but they can be supporting factors.
We will all have impressions based on this pic, for me a Least Flycatcher comes to mind bc of the larger rounded head, defined wingbars, brightly edged tertials, the mostly dark bill with some orange on the lower mandible, but the thick looking tail is wrong, it should have a more complete eyering, and I’m not certain of the primary projection in the pic.
I wish I could give you a definitive ID but I hope I was able to help with what to look for. Several of the flycatchers that all of us see are going to be flycatcher sp.
Jennifer
Jennifer Miller Lubbock, TX
(o,o) /)_) " " Email: foundnatureblog@xxxxxxxxx
Blog: https://foundnature.weebly.com/

On Aug 14, 2022, at 3:00 PM, Heppert, Joseph A. <jheppert@xxxxxx> wrote:

Hi, everyone.
I’m sorry to come back to the well so often, but flycatcher ID is…for me at least, challenging.
We’ve seen flycatchers we’ve thought were Willow Flycatchers in Clapp park sunflowers for over a week now. All my AI tools suggest that the guy in the attached pic is a Least, an Alder, or a Willow…take your choice. My instinct says Willow.
Can someone more knowledgeable give their assessment?
Thanks,
Joe

--
Jennifer Miller Lubbock, TX
(o,o) /)_) " "
Blog - http://foundnature.weebly.com/index.html

References:
- [leasbirds] Re: Flycatcher ID
  - From: Jennifer Miller

[leasbirds] Re: Flycatcher ID

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