Yeah, the reason who I say this is, in the cases I can currently locate,
such as listviews like that. the windows 7 desktop is a good example, if
you get the MSAA object with focus, try to navigate to the first child of
the the object, you get null, meaning that it has no children. But, it has
a bunch of these elements, one element for each item in the list view.
Somewhere, I saw the term, simple elements, for things like that in MSAA.
With UIA, I think each element really is a child object.
Anyway, just my experience.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Listen to The Snowman on MushroomFM.com, Saturday evenings, 8PM Eastern
time.
60's and 70's tunes, and gently conservative talk.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <temp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 2:22 PM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Question about the FSDN possible improvements!!!
I am pretty sure that all the values can get the values of the children.
So o.accName(1) is the accName of the first child.
o.accRole(3) is the role of the third child.
o.accName or o.accName(0) is the name for o
If you want to actually get the object though then you have to navigate as
you suggest.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/oleacc/nf-oleacc-iaccessible-get_accname
Bob
On 16 Oct 2020, at 20:08, Snowman <snowman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hey there, is a subtle point here about children, from Bob's message.
Unless I got this totally wrong, o.accName(3) is not the third child of
o.
It is a simple element, which is part of o. So, objects are
hierarchically
related, just as they are in UIA. But, each object might also have these
simple elements.
That is, o might have a child, and there is a way to get to it.
Let oChild = o.accNavigate(msaa_navDir_firstChild,objectID)
But, I think that is not the thing that is referenced when you say
o.accName(1).
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Listen to The Snowman on MushroomFM.com, Saturday evenings, 8PM Eastern
time.
60's and 70's tunes, and gently conservative talk.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <temp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 10:17 AM
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Question about the FSDN possible
improvements!!!
MSAA is fairly arduous compared to uia.
If you want other than the object with focus then you have to do the same
as
uia tree walking to get to what you want.
The info you can get on any object is the same as the
GetLegacyIAccessiblePattern properties.
The one bonus is if you do o.accName(3) you get the name of oâ?Ts third
child
so you donâ?Tt have to walk for the children of an object.
I always have to look up how to get the first object though to start off
as
I use it so rarely.
Bob
On 16 Oct 2020, at 15:31, Theodore Cooke <theodorecooke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thank you to Bob and Chaba for trying to answer my question. However,
you accidentally answered the opposite of my question. I already
understand how to use UIA, but I do not understand how to do any
scripting that uses MSAA or com elements etc. These are most of the
scripts in the default jss files, and I struggle to understand what
they are doing. Are there any tutorials that explain how com elements
etc work, or any tips for understanding these older styles of scripts?
__________�On 9/27/20, Udo Egner-Walter <udo.egner-walter@xxxxxx> wrote:Hi Csaba,
again thank you very much for your comments.
Once again you can see that creating scripts for others means more work.
While creating the scripts itself can be quite fast sometimes it is on
the
other hand very time consuming to create the documentation and to follow
the
standards of FS regarding JSD files and the like.
Thanks a lot for the hints that help me a lot and simplify the creation
of
scripts.
Best regards
Udo
Am 26.09.2020 um 19:59 schrieb Csaba Ãrpádházy-Godo
<arpadhazi68.jawsul@xxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Udo,
Control + W saves the active file without compiling namely without
creating a binary script file. Control + S saves it with compiling, so
it creates the JSB file, too.
One would think that these two menu commands work similarly, but
practice shows that they do not. If you save the file without compiling
by first synchronizing it with the documentation (Alt + F, D command),
the entries will normally be included in the JSD file. that is, the
parameters of the functions, their possible optionality. If you do the
same with the Control + S command, the JSD file will contain only two
lines of functions in most cases. An example to understand:
1. the contents of the script file that I wrote into it manually and
did
not use the Add New Function dialog.
string Function AddItemToList (int ItemID, string ItemName)
EndFunction
int Function SelectItem (int ItemId, optional int DeselectIt)
EndFunction
2. I sync the file with the documentation. That is, I choose
Synchronize
Documentation from the File menu.
3. I saved the changes.
3.1: In case of Control + W - save without compilation, the content of
the JSD file in 95% of cases will be:
: function AddItemToList
: Returns string
: SearchRank 1
: Param int / ItemID
: Param string / ItemName
: function SelectItem
: Returns int
: SearchRank 1
: Param int / ItemId
: Optional
: Param int / DeselectIt
3.2 In the case of using Control + S, namely saving our file with
compiling the JSD file in most cases will only contain the following
lines:
: function AddItemToList
: SearchRank 1
: function SelectItem
: SearchRank 1
As I wrote, the practice for me to create the documentation was that
once I am done with the script file, (that is, I no longer write new
scripts and functions,) I open it in the Script Manager and after
synchronizing the documentation I save with Control + W. Then, if the
file doesn't contain a lot of declarations (about 10-15 scripts /
functions), I use F2 to jump to the first line of inputs and press
Control + S. In the dialog that appears, I fill in the fields on the
first tab. I don't touch the Parameters tab. When I'm done, I go down
and pess OK. Than F2 again, then Control + D. After about 3-4
declarations, I usually save with Control + W so that the JSD entries
from the memory are included in the JSD file.
If my file contains more than 15 declarations, I will manually edit the
JSD file. In this case, I close the JSS file and open JSD. With Control
+ N, I open a new, empty document in Cript Manager (it can be any file
type, since I didn't save it anyway, I just use it as a clipboard) and
create the necessary block to insert after the: SearchRank line:
: Synopsis [Short description of the function / script]
: Description [Detailed description of the function / script. This will
appear in the Shift + F1 keyword help.]
: Category [Category of the given function / script]
Then I put these 3 lines on the clipboard, and then I start editing the
JDF file. That is, I hit Enter at the end of the: SearchRank line, then
I paste the above 3 lines with Control + V, and then fill it out. I
also
fill in the parameters. In other words, I include their descriptions
one
by one here as well.
I repeat these steps until the last declaration.
Namely, according to my observations, if a script file contains more
declarations than 15 and I create the documentation using the panel
that
can be called with Control + D, then after a while, approx. 20
declarations, SCript Manager crashes during saving process. The JSD
file
is saved completely blank. There may be some sort of memory management
bug in the script manager. But it's been a long time since I've had
similar issues with version 11.
HTH
Chaba
2020. 09. 26. 17:29 keltezéssel, Udo Egner-Walter Ãrta:
Hello, Chaba,__________�
First of all, many thanks for this detailed explanation and the tips
it
contains. I always think it's absolutely great how you and all the
others
(Bob, Doug, Snowman, just to name a few) give expert advice here. I
would
therefore like to thank you on behalf of all the others.
One more question: Under 2. you write that you press Ctrl+W to update
the
JSD file. But doesn't Ctrl+S do the same?
Best regards
Udo
Am 24.09.2020 um 21:23 schrieb Csaba Ãrpádházy-Godo
<arpadhazi68.jawsul@xxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Udo,
of course you can ask. That is why this list is. :-)
I can understand that you hate to create functions / scripts with the
"Insert new script" dialog. Whoever created the JAWS script editor's
dialogs had no faint idea of â?<â? >>>>>> â?oergonomicâ? mean.
I think, most of scripters create their functions smoothly, simply by
typing them into the editor. In this case, the script editor -
unfortunately - is not "informed that a new script / function has
been
created. So it is not included in the documentation file.
In this case, if we press Alt+F than D (File menu > Synchronize
documentation command) than the script editor usually updates the JSD
file. However, in the vast majority of cases, does it incorrectly.
Usually forgets to add the parameters of the functions.
For this reason, I always edit the JSD file manually. And most of the
time in the script editor. There are a few tricks to look out for:
1. Opening JSS Script Manager loads a copy of JSD into the memory.JSD
When you open a script file (JSS), the script editor loads the
contents
of the JSD file into the memory. If you edit a JSD file with the
corresponding JSS file being opened, make sure that the script editor
does not update the information loaded into memory when saving the
JSD
file. Therefore, if you save the JSS file, some of your changes to
the
JSD file will be lost. Therefore, while I am editing the JSD file, I
will never modify the JSS, or if I finish modifying the JSD, I will
close both files and only then start modifying the JSS again if I
reopen
it.
2. Use Control+D (Edit script dialog) to spare work.
As I mentioned I write my scripts/functions per hand, too. When I
wrote
the framework for the new function (the declaration and closing
lines -
"xxx function xx (params) / EndFunction") than I always save my work
by
pressing Control + W (Save without compiling). It ensures, that the
Script manager uptates the in memory copy of JSD file when saves my
new
function framework.
3. When I finis a script file, I always take time to document my
scripts
& functions. It means I fill the ":Synopsis, :Description &
:Category"
fields in the JSD file. To do it I use the Control+D (Edit script
dialog). Only in the case if my function has optional parameter do it
by
hand.
This is because you cannot enter optional parameters via this dialog.
Thus, if you edit a function that has such a parameter, the
optionality
is lost.
4. Descriptions of parameters
I do it always by hand in the JSD file.
By the way, the Control + e (Add new script) / Control + D (Edit
script)
dialogs has some errors in their functioonality. For example: you
can't
make a parameter optional, if you edit a function that has already a
short description, the dialog does not shows it. The same with the
category, and the return walue. You can't edit existing parameters,
etc.)
HTH
Chaba
2020. 09. 24. 16:37 keltezéssel, Udo Egner-Walter Ãrta:
Hi Csaba and list members,__________�
I would like to ask another question off topic if I may.
To make entries in the JSD file yourself, you can press Ctrl+D in a
script/function and fill in the necessary fields. However, I find it
quite complicated to change or create functions using this.
Personally, I prefer to create the functions "by hand" and would
therefore have the question: is it possible to open the JSD file
with
an editor and make the entries myself? Is there anything special to
consider here? How do you do that, e.g. to store a description for
a
parameter?
Up to now I have always edited the JSD file with an editor for
scripts,
but I haven't dared to use the functions yet. Does anyone have any
suggestions, instructions or general ideas?
Thanks for suggestions
Udo
Am 24.09.2020 um 11:35 schrieb Csaba Ãrpádházy-Godo
<arpadhazi68.jawsul@xxxxxxxxx>:
Theodore,
Bob is right. But instead of JSS you have to add the JSD file to
your
script whre you would like to use UIA functions. So the correct
line
you
have to insert is:
Import â?ouia.jsdâ?
Studying the code in the UIA.jss file you can get many examples how
to
use UIA.
HTH
Chaba
2020. 09. 23. 12:16 keltezéssel, Bob Ãrta:
Add the line:__________�
Import â?ouia.jssâ? to your jss file.
Save, close and reopen script manager.
Then take a look at the functions that appear in the insert
function
dialog that start fsuia.
You can also look in uia.jss at what they are doing.
Bob
On 23 Sep 2020, at 10:28, Theodore Cooke
<theodorecooke@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Csaba, are there any shared scripts you think are a great
starting
point? I have learned how to write scripts that interact with
Microsoft UI Automation, but I still haven't learned how to use
the
vast majority of the functions in the insert functions dialog.
They
mostly seem to use MSAA, but I just can't get the feel for MSAA.
On 9/12/20, Csaba Ãrpádházy-Godo__________�
<arpadhazi68.jawsul@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Reed,
These script are in the shared scripts folder of the JAWS. You
can
find
them in version 2020:
C:\ProgramData\Freedom Scientific\JAWS\2020\Scripts
HTH
Chaba
2020. 09. 11. 17:48 keltezéssel, Reed Ãrta:
Hi Chaba,__________�
Where might one find these "JAWS shared scripts"?
Thanks!
Reed
-----Original Message-----
From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Csaba Ãrpádházy-Godo
Sent: September 11, 2020 5:28 AM
To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: Question about the FSDN possible
improvements!!!
Hi Shan,
If you need code samples, than you have to study JAWS shared
scripts.
They are inexhaustible collections of examples!
By the way, you can contact Vispero and could buy some
overpriced
script
writing training materials. But they contain "common script
writing
guidelines" only.
On the other hand, the new FSDN much better than the previous
ones! You
have to download it and look!
Chaba
2020. 09. 10. 19:58 keltezéssel, Shan Noyes Ãrta:
Hi folks__________�
A few years back I purchased an excellent Jaws course from
Jackie
Mcbride. Anyways, in the course she mentions and as I have
discovered
that the FSDN is a pretty good resource, however, it does have
some short
comings. I agree with that statement coming from IBM Screen
Reader days
and writing profiles because the programming supporting
manuals
actually
provided examples of code for each IBM screen reading function
etc. Note
the FSDN does not due that at all.
So I'm writing and asking if anyone is familiar with any such
improvements to the FSDN like manual from Freedom.
Thanks all and have a good day.
Shan Noyes
Technical Analyst - Systems Security
GIAC
W: 306 777-4830
C: 306 533-1440
NOTICE: This confidential e-mail message is only for the
intended
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised
that
disclosing, copying, distributing, or any other use of this
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strictly prohibited. In such case, please destroy this message
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