It's not a matter of suspending reality. It's a matter of perspective. The reality is that ISA can be installed more neatly and cleanly when it's has it's own hardware and doesn't have to share. The reality is that small businesses are installing firewalls beyond the router that is provided to them by the ISP or the Norton Security Suite. Most small businesses are backing up their data and yet they recognize that this is a bad thing. They don't have a clue that not having a firewall is a bad thing so convincing them to spend money on one is difficult if not impossible sometimes. The alternatives to using ISA on SBS aren't any better for the price. I've got 6 year old unsupported, out dated Sonicwall firewalls and some Symantec firewalls out there at client offices that I can't convince them to replace because nothing bad has happened yet. It's not that I think these are lousy products, it's that once they are in place I can't get the business to update it. So even if it was a decent product to begin with in a couple of years, it's lousy. At least if the firewall comes with the server package they stay up to date. It really all comes down to cost. I spoke on ISA last night to our local SBS user group and an ISA hardware vendor showed up to push his wares. Nice equipment I'm sure but the lowest price point is $4300. Hmmm, how am I going to sell that to a small business? $1500 for SBS and it comes with ISA2004. When we have a $600-1000 ISA price point, then small businesses will move it off their SBS box but not until that happens. Amy Harbor Computer Services Small Business Computer Specialists Client Blog: http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/ Tech Blog: http://isainsbs.blogspot.com/ Website: http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/