RE: Legal consequences (Was: RE: OT: Loser found responsible for worm)
- From: "Kenny Mann" <Kennymann@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:59:57 -0500
This is my last email, anyone wanting to continue this conversions can
email me at kennymann@xxxxxxxxxxx
Kenny Mann
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kenny Mann
>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:57 AM
>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>Subject: [isalist] RE: Legal consequences (Was: RE: OT: Loser
>found responsible for worm)
>
>
>http://www.ISAserver.org
>
>
>But we are talking about a whole different sector of
>criminalogy. My uncle was punished by the justice system for
>something that wasn't his fault. I'm a semi-non believer in
>the justice system, especially as to how I see things going
>now-a-days (RIAA, MPAA, DMCA type stuff, etc).
>
>What I meant was that if I kill someone, and the dude(ette)
>across the street cuts someones arm, will the punishment be
>different? Or will almost all these cases coming in to play
>(soon) going to just make an example of these kids? Would we
>be better off pointing them in the write direction and finding
>a more effective way of punishment besides jail time and
>fines? From what I have seen, once you goto jail, it's REALLY
>difficult to get a life after that. This puts these people
>back in the same spot, thus why you get some many repeat
>offenders. We need to find something more effective, lots of
>these virus writters are people <20. They have their whole
>lives ahead of them. Some are smart, perhaps they could use
>that knowledge for good. I don't know.
>
>(I'm playing devils advocate because no one else seems to, at
>least this way it will get a level ground of understanding
>hopefully, I don't mean to offend anyone.)
>
>Although, I can imagine what the main LovSan worm writter has to be
>thinking: "I have the entire planet after me."
>Would he get a lighter sentence if he turns himself in, or is
>he better off hiding and hoping he don't get caught? (looking
>at it from his/her perspective).
>
>Kenny Mann
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Bill Kuhn - MCSE [mailto:bkuhn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:40 AM
>>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>>Subject: [isalist] RE: Legal consequences (Was: RE: OT: Loser
>>found responsible for worm)
>>
>>
>>http://www.ISAserver.org
>>
>>
>>Well put, tom.
>>
>>I'm not big on blaming the victim. Criminal activities and
>>threats have cost Microsoft billions of $$. They are a victim.
>>
>>I am a fervent believer in roasting the criminal.
>>
>>And as to the scale of the crime.. If someone murders a
>>homeless person should he be punished less than someone who
>>murders a billionaire? I don't think so.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:19 AM
>>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>>Subject: [isalist] RE: Legal consequences (Was: RE: OT: Loser
>>found responsible for worm)
>>
>>
>>http://www.ISAserver.org
>>
>>
>>Hi Kenny,
>>
>>I honestly don't see how anyone can reasonably blame Microsoft
>>(unless you're a lawyer and want to cash in).
>>
>>Microsoft has put in more than enough due dilegence in trying
>>to protect their systems. Criminals *must* be held accountable
>>for their criminal behavior. Once you start blaming the
>>victim, the game is over and everyone loses. Microsoft was a
>>victim, I was a victim, you were a victim, and millions of
>>others were victims.
>>
>>Jim mentioned that the worm was the result of "research".
>>Well, does all research need to be done. During WWII in
>>Germany, there was some medical research done in the field of
>>neurology that provided information we still depend on today.
>>Should that research been done? The information would have
>>become available using legit means later.
>>
>>Just some food for thought on where people might best spend
>>their time and effort.
>>
>>IMHO,
>>Tom
>>
>>Thomas W Shinder
>>www.isaserver.org/shinder
>>ISA Server and Beyond: http://tinyurl.com/1jq1
>>Configuring ISA Server: http://tinyurl.com/1llp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kenny Mann [mailto:Kennymann@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:08 AM
>>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>>Subject: [isalist] Legal consequences (Was: RE: OT: Loser
>>found responsible for worm)
>>
>>
>>http://www.ISAserver.org
>>
>>
>>Hmm, I've started thinking...
>>The kid is probably going to be put to jail for a long while
>>and given some hefty fines for billions of dollars worth of
>>damages probably.
>>
>>Should we treat virus writers (and modifiers) as rapists and
>>murderers? For the most part, most viruses do not deal bodily
>>harm or really hurt someone. Hmm, interesting question. I
>>believe I recall one of the viruses (Sobig or Lovsan) that
>>screwed over a Nuclear Power Plant. Many people could have
>>died because of his actions. Not just cost business's money,
>>cost people their lives. Should Microsoft be held partly
>>responsible for not devoting enough to security or should
>>people have their own fault to blame because they didn't
>>update their machine, or should it all go to the virus
>>writter? OR spread it around? If I write a virus and it deals
>>$100 million, but the guy across the street writes one and it
>>deals $4 billion, will the consequence be adjusted accordingly?
>>
>>In my administration folder (A folder which received emails
>>that state if anything weird happens), I get 100+ more emails
>>per day of prohibited attachments and such because this dude
>>wrote a virus. On the other hand, I get _more_ emails from
>>spammers. Almost all those viral emails are directed towards
>>only 4 people of our <50 person company.
>>
>>Something to dwell on for the day.
>>
>>Kenny Mann
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Bill Kuhn - MCSE [mailto:bkuhn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:58 AM
>>>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>>>Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Loser found responsible for worm
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>
>>>
>>>I'd still use the sharpest tool in the shed on his head. I have some
>>>sharp tools in my shed and I volunteer to use them on him
>and on each
>>>and every other criminal a$$hole who pulls that kind of stunt.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Bailey, Matthew [mailto:MBailey@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:35 AM
>>>To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
>>>Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Loser found responsible for worm
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.ISAserver.org
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't think I made my point very clearly. The guy they arrested
>>>today deserves EVERYTHING he gets and maybe more. I think
>the point I
>>>was making is they haven't caught the true culprit behind
>Blaster worm
>>>just some script kiddie who modified the existing code and tested it
>>>in a public place.
>>>We aren't talking about the sharpest tool in the shed.
>>>
>>>- Matt
>>>
>>>Matthew Bailey
>>>LAN Engineer
>>>CSK Auto, Inc.
>>>Voice: 602.631.7486
>>>Fax: 602.294.7486
>>>
>>>
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