[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 29 Nov 2011 ibis-atm meeting

  • From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:37:34 -0500

Minutes from the 29 Nov 2011 ibis-atm meeting are attached.

IBIS Macromodel Task Group

Meeting date: 29 Nov 2011

Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent:                    * Fangyi Rao
                              Radek Biernacki
Altera:                     * David Banas
Ansys:                        Samuel Mertens
                            * Dan Dvorscak
                            * Curtis Clark
Arrow Electronics:            Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems:       Terry Jernberg
                            * Ambrish Varma
Celsionix:                    Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems:                Ashwin Vasudevan
                              Syed Huq
Ericsson:                     Anders Ekholm
IBM:                          Greg Edlund
Intel:                        Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic:                    Wenyi Jin
Mentor Graphics:            * John Angulo
                              Zhen Mu
                            * Arpad Muranyi
                              Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology:            Randy Wolff
NetLogic Microsystems:        Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks:     * Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp.                  James Zhou
Sigrity:                      Brad Brim
                              Kumar Keshavan
                            * Ken Willis
SiSoft:                     * Walter Katz
                              Todd Westerhoff
                              Doug Burns
                            * Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP:                  Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro:                     Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group:   Scott McMorrow
                            * Bob Ross
TI:                           Casey Morrison
                              Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor:        Eric Sweetman
Xilinx:                       Mustansir Fanaswalla

The meeting was lead by Arpad Muranyi


- None

Call for patent disclosure:

- None

Review of ARs:

- None

New Discussion:

Arpad showed a new Model_types BIRD proposal:
- David: The added text for Usage Rules should have "or" instead of "and"
- Arpad made those changes
- There were no other comments

- Bob motioned to approve for submittal
- David seconded
- No one opposed, the motion passed by acclamation

AR: Arpad submit modified Model_types BIRD to Open Forum

Arpad showed BIRD 140.1:
- Bob: In V-t the "T" should be uppercase
  - In the last change paragraph the i.e. should have a comma
- Curtis: "device" is misspelled "deice" at the end of a paragraph.
- Ambrish: The same error is found on page 3
  - No, that is the same place
- Bob: The added text for pgs. 107 & 125 is not OK for 125
- Arpad: Could we have a buffer model in an [External Circuit]?
- Bob: [External Model] would be used for that
- Arpad: That was an interim solution
  - [External Circuit] is a more general solution, suitable for models too
- Bob: This whole area is not very clear
- Arpad showed page 125 of IBIS 5.0
- Walter: For buffer models min/typ/max means slow/typ/fast
  - Interconnect may be independent of process corners
- Arpad: [External Circuit] is usually on-die routing
  - Would min/max be independent of process corner?
- Walter: That would be correlated
- Arpad: Section 9 already establishes a min/max - slow/fast relationship
- Mike: The page 125 change might begin with "Circuits" instead of "Models"
- David: A user validating setup and hold would the shortest etch
- Ken: Impedance would be different
- Walter: We should talk in the context of derivation methods
- Arpad: Would leave this change off page 125 for now
- Bob: That would be good until we have better wording
- Arpad altered the BIRD to change only page 107
- Fangyi: It no longer says there is no fast/slow relationship between AMI and 
- Arpad highlighted a section that replaces that
- Arpad: We are replacing most slow/fast with min/max for AMI purposes
- Fangyi: AMI Range parameters will have no relationship to IBIS corner
- Arpad highlighted a paragraph that explains AMI to IBIS relationships
- Fangyi: It should say "AMI" and "IBIS" to be more clear
- Arpad made changes to the paragraph about Range

- Bob motioned to submit this to Open Forum as modified
  - It should also say that page 125 is not modified
  - Arpad will add that
- Ken seconded
- No one opposed, the motion passed by acclamation

AR: Arpad submit BIRD 140.1 with modifications to Open Forum

Walter showed an email about BIRD 123.3
- Walter: The contentious issue is that Rx_Rj, Rx_DCD, Rx_Sj apply to both TD 
and statistical
- David: How can we combine DCD and Sj to one deterministic jitter parameter 
like Rx_Dj?
  - There should be a new parameter for that
- Fangyi: Is Dj a number or distribution
- David: We have tabled spectral functions
- Walter: We need a mathematical description of that
  - Hopefully EDA vendors can resolve this offline
- Fangyi: Can this be ignored in statistical?
- Walter: The question is if it can be ignored in statistical mode
- David: If a model returns ideal clock times is it TD or statistical?
- Walter: In the 2nd case these parameters would not be used if the model 
returns clock_ticks
- Fangyi: Is the 1st case processed by the tool?
- Walter: 1st case applies when you have Getwave with or without clock_times
  - 2nd case is only Getwave with clock_times

AR: David write mathematical description of combined Dj proposal

- Walter: Most vendors have touchstone implementations
  - Can we allow S12 = 0 and S12 != S21?
  - Should there be E elements to isolate Touchstone calls?
  - BIRD 120 allows any number of corner values
    - Ambrish and Arpad have not yet shown this in their proposals
- David: What is pad?
- Walter: Where the die connects to the package
  - This is in the silicon
  - It can be used where there is a T-coil to reduce effective C_comp
- Fangyi: The first circuit is incomplete, no termination
  - The E element helps
- Walter: The 1st will work if connected to a voltage source
- Fangyi: The E elements are needed only for TX?
- Walter: We assume the RX input is high impedance
  - Either the EDA tool puts it in or the subcircuit has it
- Fangyi: S12 and S21 have a physical meaning
  - The magnetic field is affected
- Walter: How do we handle these s-parameters from IBM?
- Fangyi: The model vendor must generate a proper s-parameter model

AR: Ambrish and Arpad produce examples of 5 corners with Touchstone files in 
their proposals

Meeting ended.

Next meeting: 06 Dec 2011 12:00pm PT

Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions

IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:

1) Simulator directives

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