[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 27 Jul 2010 ibis-atm meeting
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:47:27 -0500
Minutes from the 27 Jul 2010 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 27 July 2010
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Adge Hawes, IBM
* Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
Chris Herrick, Ansoft
Chris McGrath, Synopsys
* Danil Kirsanov, Ansoft
David Banas, Xilinx
Deepak Ramaswany, Ansoft
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks
Eckhard Miersch, Sigrity
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
* Fangyi Rao, Agilent
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, consultant
Jerry Chuang, Xilinx
Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
* Ken Willis, Sigrity
Kellee Crisafulli, Celsionix
Kumar Keshavan, Sigrity
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
Pavani Jella, TI
Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Komow, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Samuel Mertens, Ansoft
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Kaufer, Mentor Graphics
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
Ted Mido, Synopsys
Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
* Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
Wenyi Jin, LSI Logic
Zhen Mu, Mentor Graphics
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opens:
- Arpad: May want to discuss a new BIRD
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- none
-------------
Review of ARs:
- Michael M. contact Synopsys about line continuation inconsistency
- MM sent email to say he may not be able to join us
- Todd: I will be taking that task
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
Arpad: Any questions before we vote?
- Ambrish: What are the 3 bullet items?
- Arpad: Walter had a separate BIRD in addition to his flow BIRD
- It is an enhancement to his original proposal
- Ken: What is the summary of changes?
- Arpad:
Vote: Which flow BIRD should be submitted to Open Forum?
- Walter's proposal
- Arpad's proposal
- Roll call vote:
Agilent Arpad's proposal
Ansoft Walter's proposal
Cadence Walter's proposal
Cisco Walter's proposal
Mentor Arpad's proposal
Micron abstain
Nokia-Siemens abstain
Sigrity Walter's proposal
SiSoft Walter's proposal
Teraspeed Walter' proposal
Intel abstain
- Final tally:
- Arpad: 2
- Walter: 6
- abstain: 3
- Walter's proposal will be submitted to the Open Forum
Arpad: Any comment on the text of Walter's BIRD?
- Walter showed his BIRD document
- The date has been changed to today's date
- Arpad: Page 7 Step 1 introduces Touchstone with no clue how it would be
brought in
- Walter: Several vendors use Touchstone to represent analog behavior
- It has some filtering effect
- The buffer itself can have filtering that is included in impulse response
- Kumar: The channel model can include anything
- Walter removed the Touchstone reference
- Fangyi: Does analog include I/V and V/T?
- Kumar: Yes
- Ambrish: How can s-params be used in an IBIS framework?
- Walter: One way is to put it in an AMI file
- Ambrish: There should be an introduction before section 3
- Walter renamed section 3 to "Reference Flows"
- Arpad: Page 8 has 6a and 6c but no 6b
- Ambrish: Would like another week to read this
- Arpad: This should be ready for submission?
- Walter: I can send a PDF to Mike for posting to Open Forum
- Bob: For Open Forum it should be a text document
- Ambrish requested another week to look at the proposal
- Walter: If there are changes the vote can be delayed
- Bob: Why vote if it's not ready?
- Walter: The Init_Returns_Filter BIRD is very simple
Walter showed the Init_Returns_Filter BIRD:
- It has the same name but the logic is different
- The usage was Info, type Boolean, default False
- Existing models would do what they do now
- New models would work the same in old tools
- If True the filter impulse response is returned
- No EDA tool changes are needed
- This could be merged into the other BIRD
- Bob: That would be preferable
- Arpad: We are targeting IBIS 5.1
- We should decide based on how clean 5.1 will be with and without
- Bob: This affects only section 6
- Walter: We could vote on the concept before deciding on the merge
- Kumar: The complexity is of concern
- Model makers may be confused
- This will not affect TD flow?
- Arpad: This eliminates deconvolution
- Kumar: That is a special case, probably rare
- Todd: This is not that rare
- Our model have GetWave even if LTI
- When running both you have to deconvolve for TD
- Ken: Tools can catch that
- Todd: Any tool vendor can detect problems and raise a flag
- This will become more prevalent
- Kumar: This makes it more complicated
- Todd: We have made model making simpler
- The split model was complicated, but we eliminated it
- Ken: Do we introduce new syntax for this combination?
- Arpad: This is useful is deconvolution is OK
- Ken: The BIRDs should be kept separate
- Todd: This will impact the other BIRD
- Walter proposes merging them in advance
- Bob: We should decide on that now
- Ken: It is supported in a tool specific way
- Arpad: We should have read this and be ready to vote on this BIRD
- Bob: We need more time
- The syntax is wrong
- A few other problems
- Walter: This is the syntax passed into the DLL
- I can send this for discussion next week
AR: Walter send updated Init_Returns_Filter BIRD to list and Mike for posting
Todd: Model makers can't know they will have this problem combination
- Ken: They can always make TX a dual model
- RX models will always work
- Walter: They will work on stat flow
- Problem if not LTI
- How would you apply RX equalization?
- You would lose TX jitter
- Todd: We need the presentation on what the problem actually is
- Ken has a point
- Ambrish: We should always use TX Init with it
- Todd: We are nowhere close to closure
Arpad: I have a new BIRD to discuss next week
- Walter showed Arpad's new BIRD
- Arpad: This addresses character issues
- We need to define white space in .AMI files
- It is nearly done other than that
Next meeting: 03 August 2010 12:00pm PT
--------
IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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- » [ibis-macro] Minutes from the 27 Jul 2010 ibis-atm meeting - Mike LaBonte (milabont)
