[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 05 Mar 2013 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:46:39 -0500
Minutes from the 05 Mar 2013 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 05 Mar 2013
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: * Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Raghat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
* Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- None
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Arpad try to apply BIRD 158 shortcut language to his BIRDs 116-118
- In progress
- Maybe we should schedule a vote for them
- Ambrish email reflector regarding BIRD 147 status
- It is ready for posting
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New Discussion:
Interconnect
- Michael M: Reviewed new EMD spec, now posted
- No meeting this week
- Expecting SI2 update for review next week
Walter showed a slide about conversions to s4p
- Walter: David Banas asked a question about conversions to s4p
- In IBIS 6.0 David want to describe on-die interconnect as s4p
- This is a surrogate model (someone from NCSU has call IBIS that)
- The model in the top left takes a zero rise time stimulus
- The diagram shows an equivalent RC circuit on the top right
- The bottom left circuit can work correctly with a zero rise time
- It has two s4ps, which can be combined into one on the bottom right
- Fangyi: How does the waveform shaping happen?
- The transition from top right to lower left might not work
- Walter: It works like an op amp
- I may not have the expertise to understand and explain it fully
- Fangyi: There might be a one to many correspondence for that filter
- Walter: The 1 to 2 insertion loss and the return loss at 2 are critical
- David: I have to trim V-T tables to achieve high bit rates
- Can an s4p incorporate the behavior of that?
- Brad Brim had raised concern about that
- I was cautioned about lumping these things into one s4p
- Fangyi: I agree with that
- This approximation is like a small signal analysis
- The large signal operating point has to be chosen carefully
- AMI is not always about linear
- Superposition does not always hold, and it is more important than scaling
- Todd: Know where you are in the operating curve is important
- Once you have the right point an extracted touchstone model can be
reasonable
- Walter: The operating point will not be at either steady state
- Radek: We are operating with a large swing, not a small signal
- We are just basing an approximation on that point
- Dan: Doesn't using a short rise time require large bandwidth?
- Walter: Modeling the rise time requires NOT having full bandwidth
- Todd: The s4p needs to go high anyway, otherwise the simulator handles the
rolloff
- David: All that matters is that the remaining energy above some point is
minimal
- Todd: Agree
- Dan: I get nervous relying on extrapolation
- Fangyi: We are modeling both the stimulus slope plus the RC delay
- Walter: The rise times do not amount to much above Nyquist
BIRD 147:
- Ambrish: Suggestions were made to add sections to the backchannel BIRD 147
- Please comment on it
AR: Mike post updated BIRD 147
BIRD 155:
- Arpad motioned to untable BIRD 155
- David seconded
- Fangyi showed New AMI API to Resolve Parameter Dependencies
- slide 5:
- Fangyi: AMI_parameters_in is the input
- AMI_parameters_out is the new output
- slides 9 & 10:
- Fangyi described the flow
- slide 8:
- Fangyi: A new Usage Dep would be used for returned items
- slide 11:
- Fangyi: It easy easy to code FIR with this
- slide 12:
- Fangyi: An auxiliary file could contain the dependency information
- Bob: This would have to be BIRD 155.1
- Radek: This could be used for Reserved_Parameters
- Fangyi: You might use different TStonefiles for different corners
- Arpad: I thought we would use dependency table parameter passing for
[External Circuit] dependent parameters
- Putting this in the DLL would take that feature away
- Walter: The impulse response might be gathered in a separate simulation
- The advantages given here seem to be mostly for the model maker
- We should see what model makers think
- Fangyi: This was proposed three years ago by IBM
- Walter: Adge concluded that the .ami was the best place to put the data
- This is more complicated
- Radek: This is a simpler and more comprehensive solution
- Mike L: Is Usage Dep needed? Those models will be unusable in existing tools
- Radek: It will not be in the spec until 6.0 anyway
- Fangyi: A workaround is to simply not change Usage in .ami files
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Next meeting: 12 Mar 2013 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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