Sorry for the blunt subject line, and while I'm sure there are many of you out there who think it's great, I really dislike it a LOT (you couldn't tell could you??? :)) In theory it all seems like a good idea, having rules that can be reused and so on, in practice it's a PITA to get the rules written and even when they look right they still don't do things you want. I've spent a very annoying 2 hours struggling to make it do something that in a makefile I could have done in 5 minutes. <sigh> Ah but you say, when you've done it once in Jam you can just reuse the rule again! Great, so instead of simply rewriting the rule the maybe 6 times it'll be needed and taking (maybe) 30 minutes in total, I've spent over 2 hours to get to a point where it still doesn't work - damn such progress! With Makefiles there are a lot of helpful sites and a lot of information out there to assist. I've found very, very little help on Jam and even the people on the list who offer help don't really know what it does deep down and solutions tend to magically work or not. This may just be a transition period while I get to know how it works, but really this is slowing down my development to a complete stop at present, which given how little time I have this month is annoying in the extreme. In fact I'm actually giving up for today as I can't be bothered to knock my head against a brick wall just to get an incredibly simple ld command working via Jam. It's a heap of old ******** and until folks can convince me otherwise I guess I won't be doing much... :( BTW, thanks to Ingo and others who have offered to help but the stuff I'm having trouble with is really 101 stuff and if I'm having this much trouble now I'll be waking at 2am with nightmares if I try to imagine what it's going to be like when I get to complicated 2nd grade stuff. Maybe those who know about this stuff can arrange a time/place and we can meet in IRC to go through it and see if together we can fix it? Tomorrow sometime? david