I find this discussion really interesting because I'm a student and still have to learn a lot about programming languages. I found the article interesting, I also loved my Mac, but what is to say against C++? I don't find it that cryptic to write and read, I find it's okay. I especially don't understand why Objective-C is so much better, there I find the syntax very cryptic. What I really loved on the Mac was REALbasic. A very easy to learn syntax, no pointers, garbage collection, visual interface creation. Okay, it's slow, and not professional enough, but if this was fixed, it would be my favourite languages to code in. Is Python a real programming language or a script lang? >Pity you couldn't attend my presentation at >BeGeistert.org at how I rejoiced at removing the PHP to replace it with Python cgi's Is this downloadable?? -Marius