[geocentrism] Re: To Rob: Airplanes and the atmosphere.
- From: "Gary L. Shelton" <GaryLShelton@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:16:43 -0500
Gary,
Welcome to the forum. As you may have already gathered, I am the awkward,
contrary acentrist on this board, who keeps challenging errors of science
and logic. (However, I'm really quite a nice guy when you get to know me,
and I have nothing against the Christian religion.)
Gary 9/22: Hi Rob, Thank you for the welcome. I'm sure you are a nice
guy. Are you saying
you are an acentrist on a geocentrist site? Or are you saying you are
contrary to that?
Now, to your assertions / questions.
"If a jet plane leaves O'Hare airport in Chicago and flies in the air at
500
mph, how is it that this airplane will traverse 500 miles of ground below
it
in one hour no matter which direction it flies?"
Because 500mph is it's speed relative to the air, it'll also be roughly be
equal to it's speed relative to the ground, if you neglect any headwind of
tail-wind. You need to grasp the nature of relative speed here - to take a
more familiar example, if you're on a train travelling at 100mph, that's
100mph relative to the ground. If you then walk quickly towards the back
of
the train at 4mph, relative to the ground you are travelling backwards at
a
speed of 96mph.
Another example, you are on a carousel at a fair. The carousel is rotating
at a speed where the ground is passing underneath your feet at 5mph. You
begin to walk round edge of the carousel, fairly slowly, at 1mph. Now,
it'll
take you as much time to go a quarter of the way round in one direction,
as
it would do to go a quarter of the way round in the other direction. But
one
way, your speed relative to the ground is 6mph, the other way, you are
travelling backwards at 4mph relative to the ground.
How do you know the carousel is rotating and not the entire fairground
rotating round the carousel?
Gary 9/22: Rob, I agree with your last question, but neither of your
above examples has anything
to do with the example of an airplane I gave which leaves contact with
the ground.
Well, one thing that would make you suspicious is that you're getting some
weird forces acting on you. You feel that some force is pushing you off
the
carousel. Also if you walk in a straight line towards the centre, you
feel a
force trying to push you sideways.
Another is you can see the rest of the fairground, and there are lots of
other carousels in view. Some bigger, some smaller than the one you're on,
and they're all spinning round.
Gary 9/22: Rob, whether the other carousels are spinning or not is
irrelevant to what is happening
on your own carousel.
Now, you look into the night sky and there are planets there. Some bigger
than Earth, some smaller. And when you study them through a telescope, you
can see they are all turning.
Mars - rotating every 24 hours 37 minutes.
Jupiter - rotating every 9 hours 50 minutes (and Jupiter is bigger than
the
Earth!)
Mercury - rotating every 59 days. Not fast, I grant you, but rotating.
Venus - rotating every 243 days. If any planet is nearly Geostatic it's
Venus.
Saturn - rotating every 10 hours 15 minutes
Uranus - rotating every 17 hours 20 minutes
Neptune - rotating every 16 hours.
The Sun itself - rotating every 25 days on the equation, 36 days near the
poles.
And what's more, their atmospheres (where they have them) are turning with
them. We are in exactly the same situation here on Earth.
Gary 9/22: Rob, if you are trying to say the Earth is turning, you are
on the wrong site. It may not
mean anything to you but the Bible in Genesis 1:1 states "In the
beginning God
created the heaven and the earth." Note that it doesn't say "heaven and
Halley's Comet" or "heaven and all the planets". The earth is so important it
is mentioned in verse 1 of the Bible.
We are not on just another planet like all the ones you mentioned. As a
matter of fact, the
earth is not a "planet" at all, as that term comes from the Greek and
means "to wander".
Since the earth doesn't move, it is not a planet. It is the earth.
Further, Genesis 1:14-17
state that the earth is so important that it had created FOR IT all the
planets, stars, and other heavenly bodies. Those creations were made, you can
read there, for "signs, seasons, days,
years, and to give light upon the earth". All five of these reasons are
reasons FOR THE EARTH.
If the earth weren't here, neither would they be.
"Assuming we are indeed on a turning earth and, somehow, this atmosphere
of
ours is turning with us, what is the mechanism which enables it to do so?
Musn't it have something which "roots" it to the ground much like an
enormous tree?"
Your question really should be - what enables the atmosphere to remain
turning with the Earth. Why does it not slow down and stop, so we end up
with 1,000 mph winds on the equator?
Gary 9/22: Rob, I think my question is right...for a geocentrist. The
question you have phrased
assumes the earth and atmosphere have always been turning...just like the
heliocentric
scientists have taught us.
The reason is, the atmosphere is a viscous fluid. It couldn't sustain such
incredibly high relative windspeeds for long before resistance with relief
such as mountains and valleys slowed it down. It wouldn't happen
overnight,
but it would happen pretty soon. Otherwise cyclones would never blow
themselves out.
Gary 9/22: Rob, if the atmosphere "is a viscous fluid", then it wouldn't
turn with a turning
earth at all. Have you ever watched a ball bearing turn in oil? In that
viscous
fluid the ball bearing constantly plows into the oil. Only that oil
closest to the
ball bearing turns with the bearing. The rest "slips" to increasing
degrees as
you move away from the bearing.
Gary 9/22: Note, this is backwards from what some say is the dual nature
of the atmosphere.
Those who tout this dual nature always have the air "slipping" or
"free-roaming"
at the surface of the earth, but moving "en mass" further out.
And the atmosphere is not rigidly turning with the Earth. It can't, it's a
gas. It responds to local temperature variations, local relief like
mountains and valleys, local temperature variations over the oceans, the
continual heating of half of the planet by the Sun, anything that disturbs
it. As hot air from the equator moves north or south, it retains a lot of
it's speed from the equator, an effect called Coriolis
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/earth/coriolis.html which has
significant effects on the trade winds that were so useful to ocean
navigators, as well as the ocean currents. The movement of the atmosphere
is
really a very complex fluid dynamics problem and usually needs powerful
computers to model it in any detail.
"Would not a tandemly turning atmosphere/earth mean nothing could move the
air upon the ground? And would this not further mean instant suffocation
for every breathing creature on earth?"
Yes it would. But gases are not fixed and immovable, are they? They are
gases. They can move.
Gary 9/22: Rob, this would be my point. The atmosphere is a gas, and is
not fixed
and rigid. In fact I have said that we can see for ourselves how it
moves by blowing the leaves on the trees, etc. The question that is
begged
for heliocentrists, as I see it, is what mechanism causes the air to turn
but still
allows for us to see it move as a gas naturally does, ie., as the wind.
How can
the air act both rigidly and gaseously at the same time? It seems to me
that the
air must either turn or not turn with the earth. Any kind of dual-nature
middle
ground seems patently untenable.
Now, to Neville's earlier response to the same post. There is one point he
makes which is unforgivably wrong and demands a response.
"That would be assigned to the gravitational field, which rotates with the
World, and accompanies the World about the Sun (wowzers, I'd better wash
my
mouth out after this)."
Yes, you better had. The gravitational field has nothing to do with the
rotation of the atmosphere with the Earth. It holds the atmosphere close
to
the Earth, granted, but the gravity field does not 'rotate'. You seem to
be
confusing gravitational fields with magnetic fields.
Gary 9/22: Rob, yeah that was an odd remark from the good doctor.
Rob
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