Re: [foxboro] Emerson Delta V DCS System
- From: "Quay B Finefrock" <qbfinefrock@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 06:42:46 +0800
Rick,
I'm surprised that you find working with Foxdraw graphics easier than
working with DeltaV Operate (Intellution iFix) graphics. Yes there is
standard programming language (VBA) available if you need it but 99% of the
time you really don't need it -- especially if you are only trying to copy
what is available in Foxdraw.
Almost all of the dynamics that most folks build into displays are available
through standard dialogs that prevent you from having to touch any VBA code.
In these dialogs, you can put in expressions involving database tags. This
prevents you from having to put code in your database just to drive simple
display dynamics (e.g. setting outputs of CALCA or IND blocks for color).
You can make use of very nice dynamos or create your own custom dynamos that
are very easy to use to display information from a module -- a set of blocks
equivalent to a control strategy in IA. Unfortunately, the IA CP doesn't
even know that the control strategy exists. Similar with faceplates and
detail faceplates. They display information from different blocks within
the same module rather than being restricted to displaying information from
a single block. There are a lot of pre-defined dynamos, faceplates, and
detail faceplates. You can edit those to customize or start from scratch
and create your own.
For complex objects, you can expand the object directly in the tree view in
the main application window and look at the configuration of each object. I
find this method to be much easier than trying to select a specific object
in the picture and opening a separate dialog to view the properties.
Not only are the basic dynamics easier to configure in DeltaV Operate, the
availability of VBA allows you to do just about any fancy thing that you
want. If you want to open an external application or run an external
application from the display -- no problem. If you want to integrate a
camera view into the display -- no problem. If you want to use actual
pictures from your plant equipment as the display background, that looks
nice too.
The biggest weaknesses of DeltaV Operate as far as I am concerned is the
fact that VBA is employed rather than a more capable language (like VB.Net,
C#, ...) and the fact that display references are not included when you
search the database for references to a specific tag. But then again,
FoxDraw has no real language support (unless you count scripts) and also has
the shortcoming with respect to not being able to directly search for
database references in the displays.
Regards,
Quay
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Rguercio@xxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:24 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Emerson Delta V DCS System
Good analysis, Kevin. I'll throw in my two bits:
I still prefer ICC to IACC, and the more I get to know IACC, the more I am
convinced someone from Emerson defected to Invensys and proceeded to
convince the powers that were to emulate the Delta V configuration system.
That being said, one benefit is that if you know DV, IACC is a little more
understandable. ICC and Foxray still seem vastly more user friendly...
Delta V graphics are horrible to work with compared to Foxview/Foxdraw, with
tons of visual Basic under even the most simple displays. On the other
hand, the built-in sequential programming in DV is very slick and user
friendly - I programmed and commissioned a live supertanker loading SFC in
only a few weeks after attending a class that only briefly covered the
subject.
The training manuals from the Emerson classes are excellent in general.
Also slick is the built-in (activated by a license purchase) tuning
application, which does its own stepping, etc. I still didn't trust it
implicitly (like all those packages), but it seemed to work very well if
used with engineering judgement oversight.
Very slick is the built-in APC (mvc) application, again activated by license
purchase. It is fully integrated, which makes the APC graphic interface
very user friendly and the automated step testing nice.
The GDEV equivalent is also superior in my opinion, in that the associated
faceplate lets the operator see the status of all permissives and easily
troubleshoot what is preventing a motor from starting.
Commissioning Foundation Fieldbus in DV is a nightmare - we ended up writing
our own user's manual because each instrument type and version has its own
peculiar quirks, and it is just plain not fun to do.
Downloads can be iffy - we actually had to get a work permit and approval to
download modules in a lot of cases. Reboots during development are frequent
and the primary processor often becomes a bottleneck - see below.
AMS is nice, and again integrates seamlessly with DV. On the other hand, I
don't like the alarming (bottom bar) in general.
One of the worst problems is during development of large projects. The
loading didn't seem that huge to me, but we ended up scheduling
round-the-clock shifts and even then the speed of work slowed to a crawl
with just 4 or
5 of us on the system at the same time.
I do think it is the up-and-coming system, especially with Foxboro moving to
FCS and becoming more and more like DV - an appearance of catching up?
Rick Guercio, P.E.
RG Consulting
918 E Desert Shrub Drive
Washington, UT 84780
713-805-8742 cell
In a message dated 4/11/2014 03:26:14 Mountain Daylight Time,
fitzgerrell@xxxxxxxxx writes:
Some comments from my switch from I/A to DeltaV:
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