Re: [foxboro] Barriers to migration to Windows
- From: "MIKE KINCH" <MIKE.KINCH@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:03:17 +1000
Let me add my yes, yes to these comments.
There do not appear to be any worthwhile advantages to this migration.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies as far as I can see.
The problems with an incomplete DM to FoxView conversion, less ability
to copy screen displays and other fiunctional things that we lose, do
not make migration appealing.
As I have said previously, my hope for Foxboro in the short term is an
easy, real estate friendly, migration from 100 series Cluster I/O to 200
series something.
Mike Kinch
Sydney Water
>>> corey.clingo@xxxxxxxx 29/08/07 7:29 >>>
Nicely put. It would be nice to have concrete and quantitative
justification to show management as far as cost savings or something
equivalent -- productivity improvements, or better yet, yield or
production improvements. Something besides, "Foxboro's not supporting
that anymore". As it stands now, in my world, a WinMesh migration
still
appears to be a mixed bag at best.
What I really don't get is that some of this lost functionality (I'm
thinking the remote ICC and/or FV here) is possible at least in theory
on
Windows. People like Ron have spent the time to get it to work, at
least
to some extent. I too was able to get ICC on an AW70 to appear on an
AW51; I had a few issues, and didn't have a need to figure them out,
but I
don't believe they were insurmountable. If we lowly users can do it in
our spare time, surely Foxboro's dedicated development resources can.
At
the least it would make the Windows pill easier to swallow for us
Unix-heads.
Corey Clingo
BASF Corporation
P.S. I haven't even checked Foxboro's web site for Windows XP patches
for
an AW70 at 7.1.2, and from what I recall have received no notifications
that I need to install any. It's on a private LAN behind a firewall,
as I
need to back it up over the network, but no Windows networking traffic
is
allowed in or out of the private LAN. I doubt this makes a Windows box
hackproof, and I still somewhat worry about USB sticks and the like,
but
so far nothing bad has happened.
<tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
08/28/2007 09:06 AM
Please respond to
foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To
<foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject
Re: [foxboro] Barriers to migration to Windows
Alex,
As most of you know we are currently straddling the fence with
one foot on the Solaris hosted carrierband system and the other on Win
XP hosted MESH. We are patiently awaiting Solaris on the MESH in
order
to regain some of the flexibility that we experienced using remote
configuration via Hummingbird and X-Windows on the CBLAN system. =20
We currently have two Win XP hosts on the MESH that share
hosting duties for six ZCP270's. They are sitting side by side in a
small telecom room and I watch my cohorts walking back there everyday
to
make any changes that require ICC access. We haven't connected them
via
Ethernet to a 2nd network, (site LAN), because of the never ending
stream of Windows vulnerabilities that require patches to protect them
from viruses, spyware, and other attacks. =20
Isolation of Windows boxes seems to be the best deterrent to the
unwanted vulnerabilities. We try to keep the latest patches loaded on
them but it seems even Foxboro has trouble keeping up with the patches
and lags the current patches offered endlessly by MS online. Of
course
they have to test each one because MS can introduce something that
will
break it all for Foxboro or other vendors that have built upon it,
(can
you say SP2?) =20
It is interesting to me how isolated from each other the Windows
boxes are even on the MESH. Even though the two hosts sit side by
side
and connect to the same switches I am unable to use one of them to do
control configuration in a CP hosted by the other one. If two people
want to configure two different ZCP's hosted by the same XP host then
one of them will have to wait in line. This is in stark contrast to
the
Solaris hosts on the carrierband system. They seamlessly allow other
Solaris AW's or even WP's to access the CP's they host for needed
configuration changes.
In addition, one Solaris box can host as many Display Managers
or Foxview instances as you dare load on it and serve them to the
desktop of anyone you see fit. The XP box can host many, (FV only),
instances but can serve them to none. I could use remote desktop
sharing to steal the desktop from the hapless guy sitting back in the
telecom room, or implement a custom fix, unsupported by Foxboro, such
as
Ron Schafer has advertised to get better access to the AWXP, if I dare
hang it on a 2nd network. =20
I could spend a lot of money on a lot of individual Foxboro XP
WP's and pay for all of the licenses but don't expect to be able to
configure a CP from one of them. I could spend even more money for a
WIN 2003 Server that is approaching obsolescence. Or I can continue
to
use my Solaris boxes on the V6.5x CBLAN as display hosts for the
Display
Managers/licenses that we have already paid good money for. Why spend
more for new licenses that can only support FV on the isolated Windows
platform and get the same basic display functionality I have with DM
on
a more open Solaris system?
In closing, I realize that Foxboro has a plan and is moving to
new applications that should remove the isolation that the Windows
platform on the MESH currently enjoys. We are anxiously awaiting
hearing from users that have implemented the new applications and are
enthused about the improvements and increased productivity they have
received for the new money they have spent. When the control and HMI
display functionality improves significantly I don't think it will be
a
problem to get people to migrate to it. We'll spend the money to do
it
when we can justify the cost to do it. Does Foxboro have a
presentation
geared toward showing how existing Solaris based installations can
save
money by upgrading everything to a Windows based MESH network? If so,
I
would like a copy of it to show our managers.
Cheers,
Tom VandeWater
Control Systems Developer/Analyst
Dow Corning Corporation
Carrollton, KY USA
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Johnson, Alex P (IPS)
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:14 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [foxboro] Barriers to migration to Windows
I'd like your comments on what you consider to be barriers to moving
from a Solaris based system to a Windows based one.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Alex Johnson
Invensys Systems, Inc.
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
713.329.8472 (voice)
713.329.1700 (fax)
713.329.1600 (switchboard)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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