Greetings to all;
I read with interest all of the responses and especially appreciate
the well thought out and written article by bro. Al. It may seem
strange in the minds of most but I actually find much in both bro. Al's
comments and those of bro. Parks with which I agree and do not find them
to be completely at odds with one another. This is a matter which has
no real definitive answer except that a believer be "not condemned in
the thing which he allows". There is no doubt, as bro Al points out,
that no one can defend the "celebration" of Christmas as it might be
regarded to be a matter of worship or as a remembrance of the birth of
CHRIST. As such it should not be "celebrated" in my humble opinion.
I did not take bro. Park's article to be "promoting" the celebration
of Christmas, so much as it was a practical guide to dealing with the
worlds "celebration", whereas bro. Al has approached the matter from a
more technical viewpoint as to why this (or any such worldly
celebration) should not be undertaken by those who desire that CHRIST
alone be magnified. I would personally never encourage the partaking of
foods offered to idols, if by doing so, weaker brethren are emboldened
to do so,_with regard to the idol_. Having said that, I find that while
we may certainly seek to instruct the brethren on such matters, yet
those men of the world who have regard to such things are not going to
be benefited by such instruction and we merely appear unto them as
"those that mocked"(i.e.; were unhinged).
As a practical matter if we are invited to a feast and we be
disposed to go (with the proper regard to the glory of CHRIST in all
things) then we are not to consider such to be profane. Our only
consideration is to be the well being of our brethren. If a man truly
(as many confess that they do) does not "celebrate" this holiday in the
strictest sense, then he would have to stay home, and not listen to the
radio or TV. This "celebration", is all around us, we do not have to be
"partakers or promoters" of it, nor do we need to become hermits or
spend our breath trying to get others to abstain from it. I personally
view it all as just a part of the world in which we live, it has nothing
at all to do with true worship, even if some claim to do so in it. Let
the dead bury their dead. May our desire be to glorify CHRIST in all
things and let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Blessings, mike
On 12/25/2020 6:41 PM, Soraya Reis wrote:
Thank you Brethren!
I don't celebrate Christmas either because this is the way I see it: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth." John 16:13
I found your comments came to confirm my thoughts on the matter. They were most edifying and comforting to me.
Blessings to all!
Sis Soraya
Em sex., 25 de dez. de 2020 às 18:03, Don Martin <dmartinsr@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmartinsr@xxxxxxxxxx>> escreveu:
Amen! Bro. Al, Some very good observations as I am not a
Christ-mass observer as well. Sad that the majority of children
are raised and lied to regarding this mystical Santa Claus and
when they find out that they have been deceived it’s a major
psychological let down.
Bro. DON
*From:*forthepoor-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:forthepoor-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:forthepoor-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:forthepoor-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Alvin Cloud
*Sent:* Friday, December 25, 2020 3:38 PM
*To:* forthepoor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:forthepoor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [forthepoor] Re: article by bro. Daniel Parks.
I read Bro. Parks article in defense of Christmas with interest.
I have heard these arguments before and am of the mind that they
are irrelevant to the question of whether or not Christians should
celebrate the holiday/holyday. I personally do not celebrate it,
but I also am not a militant crusader against anyone else’s
preference. That being said, I will, if pressed, explain my
reasons. Bro. Mike opened that door.
How do the names of ancient gods/goddesses applied to everything
from days to months to planets to automobiles justify anything?
There are things in this world you cannot escape – even the
occasional feasts of the world to which you may be “disposed to
go” – don’t ask don’t tell. This can only apply to feasts one
could in good conscience attend and certainly cannot apply to
all. But if the idolatrous/blasphemous nature of the feast is
made known – for their conscience sake – the believer is obligated
to explain and/or abstain.
The names of days/months have no meaning to us (other than maybe a
few new agers) in society as they did in ancient times. So, the
argument that you cannot escape the idolatry that permeates the
world is tantamount to saying “If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em”.
We are in the world not of the world – unless we indiscriminately
join in the worlds vanity and excesses. James doesn’t mince words
when he warns:
/“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship
of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a
friend of the world is the enemy of God. “/
/James 4:4/
There is a delicate balancing act in our relationships with the
world as Paul asserts with a clarification of a previous admonition:
/“I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the
covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye
needs go out of the world.”/
/1 Corinthians 5:9-10/
Company with the world is not for “fellowship” but is to afford an
opportunity to enrich them with the truth – not pat them on the
back in approval.
OK, to the point. What is it about the Christmas celebration I
find offensive? Glad you asked. First, its very foundation is
based on a lie. If the foundation is not sound then neither is
the rest of the building (a concept every child of God should
understand). Our heavenly Father knows the exact date of Jesus
birth but has withheld that information. We don’t know exactly
when but we do know it was _not_ Dec. 25^th .
Secondly, its very inception was for a devious purpose. Similar
in nature to Israel’s sin at Baal-Peor, emperor Constantine (3^rd
century) merged a pagan holy day with the Holy birth of Christ in
an attempt to assimilate the church into the world and vice
versa. I have no doubt Satan was behind that idea and has been
promoting it ever since. The church was happy – Jesus now has a
birthday His Father never commissioned – the pagans were happy –
their saturnalia festival now had the blessing of the church.
But, that was then. What about now? Satan’s quest to destroy the
people of God did not end with Constantine but has been an ongoing
enterprise ever since he offered Eve something appealing to her flesh:
/“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that
it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one
wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also
unto her husband with her; and he did eat. “/
/Genesis 3:6/
Christmas, in my humble opinion, is an affront to the Son of God,
since it bears His name then humiliates Him by elevating all
manner of worldliness above Him and then sidelining the One who
would have the preeminence to a Creche. The world does not honor
the Savior for bringing the world love, joy and peace but rather
the “season”. It’s magic. It’s the Christmas spirit. It’s that
time of the year.
/“Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them
which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known
God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and
beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye
observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of
you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”/
/Galatians 4:8-11/
Bondage? Most folks don’t realize the peer pressure they are under
to celebrate the holiday. If you don’t believe that try _not_
celebrating it. You will be ridiculed and cajoled relentlessly.
I speak from experience.
/Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the
same excess of riot, speaking evil of you/
/1 Peter 4:4/
What about the elements that make up the celebration? If it were
a truly Christian holy day there would be one name exalted and one
name only. Jesus Christ. That is not the case. You see, there
is this jolly old elf who has supplanted the Christ child in what
is supposed to be His birthday. Sure, Santa Clause is a myth.
But every false god that has ever entered the mind of man is a
myth. Doesn’t stop men from believing in them, worshipping them
or attributing power to them. Old Nick is no different.
His mythology has evolved and been continually embellished over
the centuries. Compare closely: Santa is omniscient; omnipotent;
not constrained by time or space and is reported to judge the
hearts of mankind. Is this just a quaint story – or has Satan a
hand in it all. Remember this is the continuation of a plot
hatched in the third century. Men speak of him as though he were
real – tongue in cheek of course. Major industries have learned
to tap into Santa’s power of persuasion over men $$. But the worst
is that millions of adults, with all false sincerity, convince
millions of naïve children that the false god Santa is real,
teaching them to make their requests known unto him and obey the
law for reward. Is it any wonder when they are older they doubt
our sincerity when we say “Well, Santa was a lie, but Jesus is real”
This is getting rather long but Christmas has become a complex
holiday as man and spirit alike have tailored it to fit the
complex psychology of Adam’s children. Two more elements are an
important, integral part of Christmas. I don’t care about their
origin, that’s immaterial and irrelevant. What are they now and
what does God have to say about them.
It’s not Christmas without a tree. It matters not its pagan
origin. What matters is that the tree is the central icon
respecting the holiday. Since the holiday is spiritual (love,
joy, peace, etc.) we need something tangible. Every false god has
to have an image of some sort. Something we can erect in our
home, businesses or places of worship. Something we can give a
place of honor, decorate by the work of our hands. Is it an
idol? The word “idol” simply means worthless and after January
they all end up in landfills or attics, you decide.
Idols today are not what they were in antiquity. Few today
worship tiki gods. But, I can assure you idolatry is practiced
routinely the world over and the problem is we are so ignorant of
Satan and his devices we wouldn’t recognize an idol if we saw
one. I find it interesting how God describes the workmanship that
goes into the making of an idol – what is He describing through
the prophet has an uncanny resemblance to our customs.
/“Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be
not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed
at them. For the _customs_ of the people are vain: for one cutteth
a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman,
with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten
it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright
as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because
they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for _they cannot do evil,
neither also is it in them to do good_.”/
/Jeremiah 10:2-5/
Now, to be sure, Jeremiah is giving instruction to build the
classic idol of the day, and an idol is simply a representation of
what we can’t see by something we can. It is the customs of the
people or “traditions of men” the Lord takes exception to. One
last custom and I’ll shut up. Gift giving. Just like “love” in
the world is confused with the love that comes from above, the
giving the world finds so joyful is not found in the scriptures…
except one place:
/“And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations
shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not
suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell
upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall
send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented
them that dwelt on the earth.”/
/Revelation 11:9-10/
Is God referring to Christmas here? I doubt it. It just seems
noteworthy to me that of all the instances of gift giving in the
world, this is the one He chose to put in His word. We all decry
the commercialization of Christmas and rightly so. It is a
phenomenon that has been growing and morphing for nearly 2,000
years and exalts the virtues of men while at the same time
eclipsing the name of Christ. I could go on.
So, do the names of the days of the week have anything to do with
it? I think not. Do the origins of pagan rituals matter in the
debate? I think not. Does my puny opinion matter. I think not.
All that matters is what God says.
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 10:20 PM franco cafazzo
<mrcafazzo@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mrcafazzo@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Appointed route that Christmas is solely a religious day and
we’re not called to associate ourselves with religious days
administered over by religious people who have titles in this
world
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 23, 2020, at 9:17 PM, franco cafazzo
<mrcafazzo@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mrcafazzo@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Holidays have a legitimate function in the old testament
as a redemptive reminder or actually the part of
redemptive history Christmas is not only imposed upon us
by the rum and imperial whore has no basis in biblical
understanding it’s actually to me in the front to the
ministry that belongs to the Jewish dispensation. Also
holidays or associate with angelic power in a form of
submission to demons demons
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 23, 2020, at 8:44 PM, John Crowley
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Very good.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 9:11 PM, mike mcinnis
<ratmotor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ratmotor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Greetings to all,
I am sending out this article by bro. Parks, which
I find a great measure of agreement with. I
understand that this holiday is often the source
of much controversy both for and against. I fully
understand the reasoning on both sides of the
issue. We are nowhere commanded to remember the
LORD's birth, most especially not in the fashion
in which these festivities purport to do. I
personally try to avoid the trappings of this
season as much as possible and certainly do not
promote such things. Having said that, I find no
reason to be on a crusade against the holidays and
celebrations of men. We are in the world but not
of it by the grace of GOD. I would welcome anyone
with a contrary view to share it with us since
that is why we have a "forum". "/Let every man
be fully persuaded in his own mind." (Rom 14:5/)
Blessings, mike
*MAY THE LORD RICHLY BLESS CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL!*
I sometimes hear some men say they have nothing to
do with Christmas because idolatry is associated
with it.
I applaud any man who has nothing to do with
anything associated with idolatry.
Well, I would if I could find such a man!
Trust me, such a man does not exist!
Every day of the week is named after an
idolatrous god: /Tuesday/ after Mars (through a
Germanic translation into Teiwaz); /Wednesday/
after Odin; /Thursday/ after Thor; /Friday/ after
Frigg; /Saturday/ after Saturn; /Sunday/ and
/Monday/ after celestial bodies worshiped by
idolaters across the earth. Certainly he who has
nothing to do with any day associated with
idolatry has no day!
Every month of the year is intimately
associated with idolatry. /January/ is named after
the god Janus. /February/ is named after Februa,
the ancient Roman ritual of ritual purification
later personified by the god Februus. /March/ is
named after the god Mars. /April/ was sacred to
the goddess Venus. /May/ is named after the
goddess Maia. /June/ is generally said to have
been named after the goddess Juno (hence the
popularity of this month for weddings). /July/ is
named after Julius Caesar, who had a statue
dedicated to him in the temple of Quirinus in
45 BC on which was written “To the Invincible
God”. /August/ is named after Caesar Augustus, who
was declared to be a god by the Roman senate upon
his death in 14 AD. The fact that /September/,
/October/, /November/, and /December/ are not
named after gods, having instead names identifying
them respectively as the seventh, eighth, ninth,
and tenth months, does not make them one whit
holier. Remember that every day in those months is
named after an idolatrous god. Also, those months
have “holy days” (called /holidays/) designated by
idolaters.
Every time you look into the heavens you see
planets named after idolatrous gods such as
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus,
Neptune, also Ceres, Eris, Haumea, Makemake, and
Pluto.
We who are gospel ministers obey our Lord’s
commission to “Go into all the world and preach
the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15) even
though in so doing we visit cities named after
idolatrous gods.* Such places are no less
idolatrous than Corpus Christi (meaning /Body of
Christ/) or Saint Croix (meaning /Holy Cross/).
I will not castigate Paul the apostle for
ministering in Athens (Acts 17:15ff), named after
the goddess Athena; nor for not deserting that
place when “he saw that the city was given over to
idols” (v.16); nor for accompanying idolaters to
the Areopagus (vv.19-32), named after the Greek
god Ares. (The KJV identifies this place as “Mars’
Hill” in v.22, named after the Roman god
equivalent to the Greek Ares.)
I assure you that Christians are at liberty
to eat meat that was sacrificed to an idol
(1 Corinthians ch.8). But I exhort Christians to
not use their liberty in Christ in such a way as
to offend the “weak” brother (as Paul calls him in
vv.7, 9, 10, 11, 12) who has scruples against such
contact with idolatry. You may remind him that “we
know that an idol is nothing in the world” (v.4).
I assure you that you will not become
unsanctified if you travel on a highway used by
automobiles with idolatrous names such as
/Aurora/, /Mercury/, /Saturn/, or /Taurus/. Nor if
you have contact with an /ocean/, which in Greek
mythology was personified as a Titan and ruled by
the god Neptune/Poseidon. Nor if you use the King
James Version of the Holy Bible, in which the
Greek word for /Passover/ in Acts 12:4 is
mistranslated “Easter”, named for the Chaldean
goddess Astarte, Queen of Heaven.
I assure you that the Lord Jesus Christ was
not tainted by idolatry when He said “Render to
Caesar the things that are Caesar’s” (Mark 12:17)
even though caesars were idolized by Romans as gods.
The fact of the matter at hand is that we
live in an idolatrous world, for “the whole world
lies under the sway of the wicked one” (1 John
5:19). We must ever obey the command to “keep
yourselves from idols” (1 John 5:21). But he who
would have nothing whatsoever to do with anything
associated with idolatry must “go out of the
world” – as Paul expressed it (1 Corinthians
5:10). That would be contrary to the will of the
Lord Jesus Christ, who prayed that His people at
this present time not be taken “out of the world”
(John 17:15). Be confident that you may be “/in/
the world” but not “/of/ the world”, and that many
things idolatrous in name do not require the
worship of the gods associated with them.
Therefore, if you are offered “Christmas” as
a holiday, enjoy it. If you are offered a
“Christmas” bonus, spend it. If a merchant offers
a “Christmas” sale, shop. If you are offered a
“Christmas” gift, accept it – and return the
favor. If you receive a “Christmas” card, read it.
If you are invited to a “Christmas” meal, eat. If
you are offered a glass of “Christmas” eggnog,
drink. If you are invited to worship an idol,
refuse. And “whether you eat or drink, or whatever
you do, do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians
10:31) – whether the day be /Christmas/ Day or the
/Lord’s/ Day!
If others wish to abominate everything
associated with Christmas (including all things
cited in the preceding paragraph), let them. If
others judge you harshly for associating with
Christmas, let them. If others do not feel
comfortable with exercising Christian liberty
regarding Christmas things, try not to offend them.
May the Lord richly bless Christmas to one
and all! May He not withhold blessing us during
this season simply because it is associated with
idolatry!
– DEP (2011.12.18)
~~~
* Cities in the USA bearing names of idolatrous
gods include Achilles, Ajax, Amazonia, Apollo,
Argo, Argos, Arion, Athens, Atlanta, Atlantic,
Atlas, Atlasburg, Aurora, Castor, Calypso,
Cassandra, Ceres, Clio, Daphne, Diana, Dike /
Dyke, Echo, Elysian, Eros, Flora, Fortuna,
Griffin, Hector, Helen / Helena / Helenville,
Hercules, Hesperia, Hesperus, Hymera, Irene, Iris,
Juno, Jupiter, Luna, Mars, Medusa, Mercury,
Minerva, Neptune, Notus, Orestes, Orion, Pandora,
Paris, Penelope, Phoenix, Poseidon, Urania,
Uranus, Venus, Vesta / Vestal, Victoria, Vulcan,
Zephyr, and Parthenon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*/Let the words of my mouth/*
*/and the meditation of my heart/*
*/be acceptable in Your sight,/* */O Jehovah,/*
*/my strength and my Redeemer./*
(Psalm 19:14)
~~~
