Hi all – Thanks for the comments/concerns. First, although I agree that we
should have concern for the welfare of every bird, I don’t agree with the
issues that were stated. Talking while processing a bird/leaving the bird in
the cage for a second longer/handling it for a slightly longer time will
(likely) have very little impact on the individual (I have never even heard of
talking while processing a bird being a concern). As for the S-S-S idea, I had
not thought about that for shrikes (as they are not endangered here; gray
wolves in the west is what I am familiar with), but I can understand that
concern. BUT I also feel strongly that “hiding” what we do is not a good
long-term strategy for this or any other species, and I would error on the side
of “the more people that understand what we do/appreciate these awesome
species, the better”, and social media is clearly one way to make more people
aware nowadays. The push for using social media and engaging as many people as
possible in your science, is also clear in the increased importance of Broader
Impacts in NSF proposals and for other federal funding. Finally, I hadn’t
thought about this video making people go out and try to catch shrikes on
their own, so I think that is a good idea about the statement regarding
permitting/trained professional. We will ask them to put a statement about that
in the video and in the description.
As for IACUC/mouse treatment, I also do not think hiding how we catch shrikes
is the way we can go, but I can understand this concern from a practical
perspective.
Than
From: eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Hazel Wheeler
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 9:04 AM
To: eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eloshwg] Re: Shrikes on youtube
Thanks for saying all this Amy. I was also troubled with a lot of the video,
but was struggling with how to say it. I know there’s value in showing what we
do to the public, but I’m also very aware of the dangers of turning instances
of animal handling in to “social media moments”, where animal welfare might
suffer to get the “perfect shot”. I feel like there was some of that in this
video, unfortunately (e.g. filming the bird in the trap, rather than removing
it immediately). I think this is an important discussion when we’re thinking
about how we frame out public outreach.
At the very least, I wonder if it would be possible to ask the Youtubers to put
some kind of disclaimer on their video, that all trapping is done by trained
personnel with appropriate federal permits, and should not be attempted
otherwise?
Hazel
—
Hazel Wheeler, MSc
Lead Biologist - Eastern Loggerhead Shrike Recovery
Wildlife Preservation
Canada<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wildlifepreservation.ca_&d=DwMFaQ&c=QzRQJlHx0ZTYmlwGx7ptjrPEeuNmnYRxm_FN73lod7w&r=7GY_tLFKiggtwGF79-jINsYKU9T9mwO7Mj-3mSpAuok&m=UEqKqZOcvirmwXNK5sPko06cP40CdwThpbCHitlmR4A&s=P4ZX-shboq51UiMd5AkfReJws6e8nwNfJe5tvazxVNU&e=>
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On Feb 12, 2020, at 09:37, <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
<amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi to all,
I've been unsure if it would be worthwhile, but have decided that I will chime
in and be the wet blanket on this subject. Perhaps it is because I now work in
the "zoo community", but I shy away from using birds as bait. I am reluctant to
film trapping of shrike, and even down-play the use of mice when I explain my
trapping methods (or I up-play the pet-like treatment my mice get - I actually
have Stubbz, the three legged mouse, as a pet at home currently, "left-over"
from the past summer's banding).
As shrike occur almost exclusively on private land, and their presence can
restrict development, we have faced the "shoot, shovel and shut-up" mentality
here. Thus, I worry someone could use the trap in a unintended manner, and ask
that it not be photographed or filmed when I have lay-persons out with me.
My comments about mice/birds result from several experiences that I've had,
even before I started in my current position, and hopefully they might be
useful to share. While I may sound paranoid, there have been enough incidents
that I've opted toward a cautious "what would other folks think" approach.
In brief, I've often had many, many "oh, poor mouse" comments when I've
explained how I trap. More thought-provoking thous is the fact that my last
attempt at getting Queen's U. Animal Care Committee approval for shrike field
work was rejected, not because I was trapping shrike itself, but because I used
a live mouse as bait, even in a protective hardware cloth cage. It took
several, lengthy, face to face meetings with the ACC before they provisionally
approved my methods. In the end, I had to agree to record vocalizations of the
mice to determine how stressed they were while being used as bait, and, I was
encouraged to continue to develop ways to use a non-live animal as bait (thus
the mouse fur covered nano-bugs a few of you have and perhaps have trialed for
me).
Perhaps because we work with such a critically small population in Ontario, but
we've had many inquiries about the need to apply bands to shrike - people think
it is invasive for them to carry the band(s) for life. We've had one incident
of a fledged young getting its band caught on a hawthorn, which was broad-cast
on the internet, and this "haunted" the banding program for years.
Finally, I was excited to watch the You-tube video, and showed it to our PR
person, thinking she might like to link to it from our company web-site. The
reaction I got was unexpected, and not positive. In retrospect, I can see her
view (e.g. the bird was handled for a long time, lots of talking while
handling, etc.).
I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I do think we need to consider the
potential negative impact that an uninformed public could have on similar
research projects more broadly. I think maybe there is some hint of similar
recognition in e.g. the Bird Banding Lab's recent switch to a project-based
band permit system, rather than the perceived "ring-em and fling-em" approach
of the past.
I've really liked the back and forth conversation and hope I have not offended
anyone in offering a dissenting view. I think the banding work has been and
will continue to be invaluable to determining how we can ensure we keep shrike
on our landscape. Unfortunately, in the age of the tweet and sound-byte, we
aren't always dealing with a fully informed public.
I'm hoping my experiences can prevent others going through the same in the
future.
Amy
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [eloshwg] Re: Shrikes on youtube
From: Reuven Yosef <ryosef60@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryosef60@xxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Wed, February 12, 2020 1:06 am
To: "eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
<eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Good day to u all!
I frequently use a combination of sparrow and mouse. They keep themselves
active and attract the attention of the intended target (shrike or raptor).
Prof. Reuven Yosef
Ben Gurion University of the Negev, Eilat Campus
P. O. Box 272
Eilat 88106, ISRAEL
+972 53 7671290
http://bgu.academia.edu/ReuvenYosef<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bgu.academia.edu_ReuvenYosef&d=DwMFaQ&c=QzRQJlHx0ZTYmlwGx7ptjrPEeuNmnYRxm_FN73lod7w&r=7GY_tLFKiggtwGF79-jINsYKU9T9mwO7Mj-3mSpAuok&m=UEqKqZOcvirmwXNK5sPko06cP40CdwThpbCHitlmR4A&s=abPf2jrDuJaCtBlJO_6JdXTL5x_W7oZoRR8ura5MOo0&e=>
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From: Susan Craig<mailto:butcherbird3000@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 6:17 AM
To: eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eloshwg] Re: Shrikes on youtube
Great idea! That might have to be done with some discretion so innocent viewers
wouldn't be turned off. I've seen House sparrows used as lures for shrikes.
They're probably almost as good as zebra finches, but they have lice and mites.
But I suppose a shrike that catches a house sparrow would get lice and mites
anyway.
Susan Craig
On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 6:11 PM Kearns, Amy
<AKearns@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:AKearns@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I’ve been curious about using birds as bait. In particular, zebra finches,
since they are so small, noisy, and active. Apparently they are also hardy in
cold temps. Anybody ever used birds as shrike bait?
Amy Kearns
Assistant Nongame Bird Biologist
Indiana Division of Fish & Wildlife
562 DNR Rd Mitchell IN 47446
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On Feb 10, 2020, at 9:36 AM,
"jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>"
<jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
**** This is an EXTERNAL email. Exercise caution. DO NOT open attachments or
click links from unknown senders or unexpected email. ****
<910ADA902EE349E1A09B7422A8C1BB1F.png>
Great video! And great pearls of wisdom from Susan on how to increase trapping
success!
I just wanted to pipe in briefly to say that we use hoppers with our captive
birds for live-prey training, as they are an appropriate size and tend to get
more “action”. I do want to note that if eyes have not yet opened, then the
hopper cannot yet feed itself – this makes extra work to keep it alive. So
make sure you request that the eyes are still open when ordering/selecting
hoppers as there can be quite a range in this category.
Jessica
*********************************************
Jessica Steiner, MASc
Conservation Programs Director
Wildlife Preservation Canada
5420 Highway 6 North, Guelph ON N1H 6J2
Tel: 519-836-9314| Cell: 416-420-7212
Email jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jessica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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From: eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On
Behalf Of Susan Craig
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2020 4:19 PM
To: eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:eloshwg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [eloshwg] Re: Shrikes on youtube
Hi Than -
Excellent video! Lots of information and good instructions. That was one
handsome shrike you caught!
As the inventor of that shrike trap, and having caught shrikes for 25 years
here in Colorado and many other states, I have a couple of suggestions that
will help improve your capture rate.
#! - Make more use of your vehicle as your blind. You're already a diminished
threat to the shrike when you're inside the vehicle, but you can deploy the
trap through a window by adding a long handle to the trap. If you still can't
reach the ground with the trap's handle, use a dowel with a cup hook on one end
to set the trap on the ground. There's no slamming of car doors or other danger
signals for the bird to see or hear. The long handle also serves as a caution
perch for the shrike to be sure nobody else is zeroing in on the mouse.
#2 - Use smaller mice. I used mice whose eyes were barely open. Pet store
owners call them hoppers, and they are a little harder to handle than adult
mice like Mocha because they jump/hop when you try to handle them. That gonzo
mouse Mocha outweighs the shrike by some grams, and many shrikes won't tackle
prey that large. Also, try to get pinto mice, like Mocha; black and white pinto
mice are the best because they show up on any substrate
#3 - One of my objectives when banding during breeding season was to reduce
stress to the bird in hand. I accomplished that (and made recapture more
likely) by inserting the shrike into a tube as soon as I got it out of the
trap. I started with empty toilet paper tubes, but found that tube messed up
feathers. So I switched to plastic tubes of the same dimension. Try to find
dark or black tubes, and drill some air holes in the closed end. I used a lot
of spice tubes, but use oregano or basil or something that doesn't retain hot
oils in the plastic like chili powder. If you can't get dark tubes, use clear
tubes and wrap them with black electrical tape. It's like hooding a captive
falcon - you can feel the heart rate go down a bit. To measure the wing, just
slide the tube up so the bird's head is still covered. During spring and
summer, beware of the bird overheating in a black tube in the sunshine. Keep
the empty tubes out of the sunshine while you're driving along looking for
shrikes. Females that are fat and laying eggs will require a larger tube, so be
sure you have one on hand for that instance.
#4 - And last but not least, attract the shrike's attention as you place the
trap. Do this by "squeaking" like birders do by sucking on your thumb knuckle.
The squeak seems to be a universal distress call, and tells the shrike that
maybe a mouse or some prey has been hit by your car. It will draw the bird's
attention immediately. A few shrikes have come right to my car before I could
even back up.
Keep up the good work! I really enjoyed your video. It makes me want to renew
my permit (I retired in 2018) and go chase more shrikes!
But my husband had a disabling stroke in January 2019, and I'm now his
care-giver. So my shriking days are over.
Cheers
Susan Craig
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:05 PM Than Boves
<tboves@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tboves@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi all – Some of our Arkansas State alumni started a youtube channel and
recently made a video of their experience catching shrikes with Em Donahue and
Alex Worm in NE AR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzUmt_FFkaY<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DNzUmt-5FFFkaY&d=DwMFaQ&c=QzRQJlHx0ZTYmlwGx7ptjrPEeuNmnYRxm_FN73lod7w&r=7GY_tLFKiggtwGF79-jINsYKU9T9mwO7Mj-3mSpAuok&m=UEqKqZOcvirmwXNK5sPko06cP40CdwThpbCHitlmR4A&s=lqobaX9G0xoBaQ5B16FMrcMi9kJiQAezVNtpuzgFwvE&e=>
Enjoy!
Than
--
Susan
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
--
Susan
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
