Jerry wrote: Carl said: The job of any union is to protect the RIGHTS of its members, but when they fight to keep people in place who have no right to be there, they are only cheating the majority of their members who take pride in their work and (more than) earn their pay. Jerry answered: Maybe. But think of it this way. It is a lawyer's job to represent her client as professionally as she can, even when she KNOWS her client is GUILTY! This guarantees that "due process" was folowed and that her client's rights were not violated. A union should behave much the same way. It's not their job to decide whether the administration's charges are true or false, but rather, to ensure the administration is following the procedures as outlined in the current contract which both parties signed. Again we agree- up to a point! It is unquestionably a union's job to protect a member's RIGHTS. This means, as you pointed out, to be sure that due process has been followed in the dismissal process, as outlined in the contract, and all rules are followed. EVERYONE has this right. However, equating this with fighting to make the district RETAIN the employee is an equivocation. No one has a RIGHT to a job for which they are totally unqualified, and it is the union's job only to protect the member's rights. Your analogy of unions to trial lawyers has some validity, but to conclude that they must defend "guilty" parties with equal vigor(if that is what you are doing, I'm not sure) ignores some important differences, and is therefore built upon a false premise- that they both have the same role. A lawyer defends only one client at a time. Unions have a dual role: to defend their members' rights individually, and to work toward the common good of ALL its members. If protecting the jobs (not the rights) of people who are consummately unqualified to be in the profession ultimatley hurts the profession, and by extension, its individual members, the union has no obligation to do this, and perhaps an obligation not to. Again, I delineate the difference between "protecting a member's RIGHTS" and "protecting a member's JOB" when the member is unqualified- two different things. Therefore, it may be the union's job to know if the grounds for dismissal are fair and guide their actions by this. You notice I said "MAY BE" and not "IS". This is a multi-faceted issue, with many layers, and I would never suggest that my viewpoint is THE correct one. It is a great subject for discussion, and there are facets we haven't even touched on. I love these dialogs! I wish we could have started earlier, and with more people involved. Carl ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------------------------------------ Class website: http://www.greece.k12.ny.us/taylor/suny/ ------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this listserv, go to: //www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/list?list_id=edi581 If you have any problems, send an e-mail to: JerryTaylr@xxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------