[drivingpairs] tandem answers
- From: "Sterling Graburn" <phailo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:15:49 -0600
Ansley,
I am making the assumption that what you are calling the short trace I call
the hame tug. My concern with the ring on the hame is that it is directly
pulling against the hame and could pull it off the collar, rather than
having the tandem key or buckle which allows for some give/movement when
attached at the buckle end of the short tug. Also, correctly, the hames for
a single or tandem would have a chain at the bottom, or in some cases a
special kidney link with hooks on each end and a "D" in the middle. The
chains have a special link in the center with a martingale ring attached.
For Safety, in any case, I would go around the collar and through the
ring/"D"/leather strap as well. Tandem keys are not that hard to find, I
would get a set and then you have them anyway. As for clamps, they are nice
in many circumstances. If you are doing long drives, setting rein clamps can
take some of the fatigue off your hand by allowing a mmore relaxed grip when
you are not as worried about the reins slipping out of adjustment. I have
Beta reins, Zilco reins and leather reins and I have no problems with any of
them, and I have used clamps or buckles with all of them at one time or
another. Especially for hazard driving it is nice to have the reins buckled
so you don't have to worry about them slipping while you go galloping
through a hazard. In that circumstance, I much prefer buckles to clamps. I
have had the clamps slip in hazards; very disconcerting.
Sterling
>
> First I am the proud owner of a beautiful Camptown Tandem Harness.
Thanks so much Dave!! I opted for Beta lines, do any of you foresee a
problem with using Beta instead of leather. I am using neck collars and had
a couple of questions. First , I don't have tandem keys or a tandem buckle
on my wheelers harness. The hames maker put a large SS ring at the edge of
the steeple draft where it connects to the short trace strap normally (feel
free to correct me here) the leader would hook into the wheeler at the
buckle of the short trace. Now where I would be hooking in is on the hames
juncture closer to the collar rather than the buckle. I can't find this set
up anywhere else, so is this going to be a problem. I know with the leader
out of draft it won't but what will happen when the leader is in draft The
ring itself is solid and does not interfere with the function of the hames
or where it connects with the short trace and is joined into the SS metal
part not leather of the h
> ames not the leather part.
> I do have a false martingale for the wheeler. Does this have to be
hooked onto a kidney link as part of the hames or can it just be hooked into
the leather hames strap at the bottom of the collar?
> Thanks for your help!!
>
> Ansley
> Can someone tell me the advantages and disadvantages of using rein
clips while driving four-inhands and tandems.
> thanks
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Whileaway3@xxxxxx
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:23:43 EST
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Forecart
>
> Kathy!
> Excellent post! Thanks so much! I have a roadster type sulky that
was
> used in Fine Harness classes with a Morgan and a Saddlebred. I was
considering
> the purchase of a forecart for training my pair. (didn't want to destroy a
> buggy) You have cured that! We will be doing LOTS of ground driving
instead.
> Judy
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:14:28 -0500
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: minicde site...
> From: billbuk@xxxxxxxx
>
> Margo-
> I too, have a pair of bay minis. They are from different bloodlines but
> look very similar and get along great. One is 4 and the other is just
> turning 2. I got a pole and team harness and can't wait till spring so I
> can get them all together. We just do parades and demos but we have a lot
> of fun.
> Sorry about your drought. We have the opposite in Maryland - too much
> rain. I think we hit a record or close to it. Prior to this year, we had
> 3 years of drought. So I know it is tough. Hang in there. Practice your
> rain dance. -carol
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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> ------------------------------
>
> From: Shadbelly4@xxxxxxx
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:17:17 EST
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Rein Clips
>
> Rein clips or buckles are helpful to help keep things straight. I only use
> them on my leader rein. As far as your hook up of the leader to the
wheeler as
> you describe it sounds like the hames could be pulled off the
collar'BAD'the
> leader should be attached to the trace buckle so when they are in draft
the
> trace only gets pulled. I have SS keys if you need them. DO NOT use brass
they
> WILL bend. Attach the false martingale around the base of the collar not
to
> kidney link or strap it could pull your hames off Jerry T
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Pat Lundsteen" <horsedriver@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Forecart
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:19:38 -0800
>
> Kathy...what do you train your light horses on? My morgans drive nicely.
I
> have a Pacific Carriage training cart that has marathan wheels and is
easy
> entry (I can get a pole for it). It has marathon wheels...and that's what
> my mare were trained on. The problem is I use the Pacific Carriage cart
> with shafts alot and I don't want to disassemble and reassenble shafts and
> poles. The Pole will cost as much as a fore cart! Pat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kathy robertson" <goodhors@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:13 AM
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Forecart
>
>
> > Sorry to be a little late on this topic. We really
> > do not care for forecarts as a carriage pair training
> > vehicle. Forecarts, as mentioned, were developed to
> > pull tools, like cultivators, drags, spreaders. They
> > don't balance well, usually being very heavy at the
> > pole tip. Driver getting in seat, seldom affects
> > balance. Yoke between the horses supports pole, but
> > pulls down heavily on the neckcollars. This can be
> > hard on a horses neck, just holding pole up. With a
> > tool behind working, the drag of towed tool, will
> > lighten up the pole weight some, but usually does not
> > reach a balance point. Pole weight can vary, jerking,
> > as tool behind forecart hops or drags on ground
> > surface.
> > If horse does not spook from jerking pole, load
> > behind, he does learn how to pull hard. Ground driven
> > spreaders are heavy, hard work to empty. Light,
> > carriage driving horses should not be pulling with
> > front legs, but pushing from behind. Just the
> > difference in jobs.
> >
> > I really would not like seeing new pairs, light
> > horses, ponies, having to carry such a heavy pole
> > weight, while learning their job as a pair.
> >
> > Most of the forecarts I see are homemade, balance is
> > not a consideration! Solid is the big selling point.
> > Around here it is draft drivers and people moving down
> > from big horses to draft ponies, so they stay with
> > their previous training and thinking. Heavy harness,
> > heavy vehicles. Most do more heavy pulling, spreading
> > manure, stoneboats, hitch wagons, all at fairly slow
> > speeds. Their horses don't get speed and mileage,
> > jogging down the road being pulled down on the neck.
> >
> > Just putting this forward, to be considered, before
> > purchasing a vehicle. How you want the horse to
> > finish, should be thought of, as you go thru training
> > steps. Even light movers, get flat, learn bad habits,
> > bad body carriage, when dragged down by the vehicle.
> > Light horses, ponies, have a lot more work, physical
> > effort, to manage a forecart than draft horses would.
> >
> > Kathy Robertson
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:16:12 -0800 (PST)
> From: kathy robertson <goodhors@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [drivingpairs] Pairs and Carts
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> I pasted a couple of Hardy's posts from last year,
> down below. Pair carts came up then and I thought
> this covered it well. You might read thru the
> Archives for even more detail. Post titles often are
> not changed when topics do.
> We saw the same problems Hardy had, watching a
> friend use the Meadowbrook pole cart to a Pair.
> Everything started well, pole cart was the most
> wonderful idea ever!! Then stuff happened.
> Turnovers, pole dropping out of yoke. Cart was sold
> on, back to a 4-wheeler for her Pairs.
>
> We start our new Pairs, or new Pairs horse, in a
> 4-wheeler. We try to get a lighter one, but something
> with brakes. Usually use the Pair Marathon carriage,
> on the down slope out of the barn. Horse knows how to
> PULL if asked. Not afraid of weight, but not a jump
> starter, just leans a little harder if needed. We
> always tie the evener down with beginner Pair horse.
> Horses both just pulling off anchored singletree.
> Horse gets no bad reaction from pulling to start.
> Pair will to learn to start evenly over time, just
> doesn't happen with new animals. Tied down evener
> prevents slow starter horse from being pulled back by
> quicker starter. Evener stays tied until BOTH horses
> know how to start together.
>
> Driver's job to have horse responsive to voice
> commands on the long lines, before going to vehicle.
>
> Experienced single driving horse usually has no
> problem moving up. Just has to learn to be part of a
> Pair, working together, vehicle will pull on him a
> little differently. Most horses like the company of
> another animal.
>
> Kathy Robertson
>
>
> * From: Hzlax@xxxxxxx
> * To: drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> * Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:55:22 EST
>
> Don lined out some theoretical ideas how hitching
> could be done. I can
> confirm his ideas to be right on the money from my own
> experience, not with a
> chariot, but I did drive a pair to a two wheeler for
> many years - when we
> thought we couldn't afford a 4 wheeler yet. Friends in
> CA from those days
> will remember me with Grimes' Palominos :-)
> The cart was one of the common modern Amish made
> flexishaft meadowbrook type
> vehicles with the split seat arrangement, step in from
> behind, left seat
> folding up, except instead of shafts it had a pole. It
> was similarly (well)
> balanced as any such single vehicle, and as with a
> single where there should
> not be too much weight in the shafts, this also did
> not have too much weight
> on the pole. We hitched the pair with full collar
> harness and a yoke, with
> very short yoke straps strapped closely into the
> bottoms of the collars and
> traces to roller bolts on a fixed splinter bar (thus
> all closely hitched
> without too much play), plus normal pairs breeching
> and normal pairs reins.
> One needed to be careful when stepping into the
> vehicle from behind that the
> pole would not come up too much, but that was also
> very similar to such a
> vehicle driven with a single. Once we were on the way,
> I think the weight of
> the pole carried through the wide collars on the necks
> of the horses was
> fairly minimal and exceptable. It all worked well,
> EXCEPT: The darn thing
> would turn over very easily, because contrary to a
> single, which has support
> on both sides through the shafts, this thing did not
> and could just rotate
> around that one pole in the middle like nothing. So
> hazard driving, or fast
> turns, or driving sideways on a slope all were very
> risky, but going straight
> down the road it worked. For the risks involved I
> would not recommend it to
> anybody nowadays.
> Hardy
>
>
> My first question is, how many of you have driven
> > pairs in a 2 wheeled cart. I want to hear good the
> > bad and the ugly.
>
> I recently wrote about that. It's VERY instable and
> can turn over quickly as
> you don't have the shafts to balance the vehicle, and
> the pole just rotates
> between the two. So not recomended.
> Hardy (who has done that for many years)
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
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