Hi Dave, Can you get a copy of the Velstra book or tapes to see the leader bars he uses? Also gives you a good view of how he connects the bars to wheeler breast collar. There is a center clip on one centered breast collar ring, then a strap arrangement with quick release-BUCKLE straps for the sides of breast collar, holding up ends of tandem bars. We did the center ring and clip, had a team horse neckstrap, attached to shoulder strap, to hold up front of breast collar weight. I don't think I would want heavier bars, in stainless. I don't know if wood could stand up to what WE want leader bars to do. More power and bigger load than Jay's ponies have to manage. (NOT a pony slam here!!) We didn't have any have quick-release BUCKLES, so we just made regular buckle-in-straps, to hold up the leader bar ends, on the breastcollar, and tie into the traces for pulling loads. This holds the wheeler side of bars vey quiet, allows leader traces to pull straight back, to vehicle, if leader is put in draft. We used square stock, painted, with ring loop ends holding quick-release SHACKLES, on the leader, singletree side. Velstra shows a collared leader singletree end, to slip his loop-end traces over. We are big on quick-release SHACKLES, consider them a faster release. Painted is easy to maintain, quick shot of spray paint, look like new! Dark color is good! Connection of leader and wheeler pieces was wide nylon seatbelt strapping, wound around both bars, centered and bolted closed. Not much space between the two bars, just enough for the strap's bolt. Length of both bars was the width of wheelers chest (big horse!). Strapping width prevented much of the terrible swinging of leader singletree. Never had the wheeler get whacked with the leader bars, in the face or his knees. When leader was just standing, lead bars hung down wheeler's chest to end, just below his breast collar material. Shackles hung lower, but were closed on D of leader traces. We used our regular team horse, leader traces, in the last hole, for correct length. Still got leader way out, where she stayed out of wheeler's way, but traces did not get down on the ground or curl around to catch a leg, even on tight turns. I will try to measure how much length we gained with bars, tomorrow. We did not use the belly straps for leader traces. Something else to catch on hazard parts, or put a hoof in during a water crossing. Something else we did, was use the four-wheel vehicle, not a two-wheel cart. Husband built vehicle. Wheeler had the short, independent shafts, so no chance of shaft catching in leader bars. He really liked the short shafts for bending. Put no weight on his back, while spreading out his load onto four wheels. We considered it easier on the horse and driver, than a cart. Quieter ride and quiet hands was a plus. Quick-release BUCKLES on wheeler tug loops from Richard Holyoak, with large, flat, leather pads behind the short-shaft ends. Wheeler could not get poked by shaft ends, even on tight turns. Our whole setup was designed with CDE in mind. Not very traditional. Horses liked and it worked well for us. Kept tweaking it as we went along. Haven't had it out for a while, memory is not 100% accurate. I will try to measure up the rest of the harness, but we have BIG (17h) horses, not sure measurements will be of aid for smaller animals. We never used neck collars for Tandem in this pair of horses. Not sure how I would attach the leader bars on neck collar setup. Only used breast collar harness. Kathy Robertson > Further: The tandem bar > requires correct placing and harnessing, so that it > doesn't hit the wheeler > in the mouth, nor his knees nor the leader in his > hocks, so is another piece > of equipment needed which then can get in the way if > not properly set up. It > also adds a little extra weight which the wheeler > has to carry on his neck. > If done too heavy it ads more weight, if done to > light, may break. All these > are the downsides of the tandem bar. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to: http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.html `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````