"Is this the first posting on this list?" Dennis asked. Not quite, but certainly the first meaningful one and aren't we all relieved. As to Kevin's post, it strikes me that the starting point must be biblical, that being the only common text (apart from Virgil perhaps) that people would be familiar with. Gildas alludes to well-known characters in the knowledge that the audience for the text would understand the similarities. It might also relate to Gildas' fixation with the Lost Tribe of Israel and the similarities he was so keen to create with the demise of Roman Britain. In this sense, Ambrosius as Moses makes sense. I can't see Vortigern himself alluding to the Pharaoh. I'm sure, past his own desire for political or military power, he did what he thought was right; he thought of himself as good or at least would have tried to portray himself in such a role. To publicise himself in the role of Pharaoh given the prejudice attached to such a character wouldn't have been apt. Unless, that is, it was applied after the night inside Hengist's Hall. Simon