Re: USF4 changes!
- From: Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 01:42:02 +0200
Maybe.
If you know the properties of a move, then you should know the outcome from
an exchange...if the outcome is different, then maybe you don't know all
the properties of a move then. If a character's df+1 gets beaten by let's
say Zaf's ws 2...then that character's df+1 isn't as invincible as one
might think.
Tagging does complicate stuff and cause more weird situations. But most of
the stuff is the same as BR. So it's nothing too new.
True. But they have trouble with mostly raw tag mechanic related stuff or
really odd situation like (feng switching sides with the opponent doing
qcf+1 like situation)...they don't have issues like, "i can't punish jack's
df+2"..."why does hei's second hit of twin piston hit me even tho i'm
behind him! (the basic idea of most move is the last hit usually tracks a
bit better than the first, so hei's twin piston makes hei turn
around...this isn't randomness)"
On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair <
alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yeah, maybe the random crushing and buggy physics are just a byproduct
> of a 3d engine and the improved movement of TTT2 just does a better job of
> highlighting them.
> When you know the properties of a move and are expecting a certain outcome
> from an exchange, it's not fun to have something different happen.
>
> Also, it's not just Americans that have trouble with TTT2. Watch the
> Korean and Japanese matches and see the same randomness appearing.
>
> *From*: Di Lhong [mailto:numotd@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent*: Friday, July 25, 2014 07:48 PM South Africa Standard Time
> *To*: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject*: Re: USF4 changes!
>
> Mid DOES hit ducking opponent...but when it comes to crushing
> opponent...it's another story. So yes, mid is used to hit crouching
> opponent...but due to the fact they wanted to add evasion into the game
> since T5...crush system is a thing.
>
> I do agree on some stuff you say...there are stuff that Tekken in
> general needs working on...but the one thing i will defend all the time is
> TTT2 is not worst than BR...they're literally the same mechanics...things
> that did crush before now crushes are usually due to off axis issue because
> people move much more in TTT2. BR made the game became a 2D
> thing...sidestepping wasn't a major part of it...that's probably why
> Americans are having issues with TTT2...because not all of them utilizes
> sidestepping and sidewalking...while Koreans/Japs live by ss and sw...
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> The game as most of us are saying has way too many situations that
>> require a specific way to deal with as a result it accumulates into a
>> cluster fuck.
>> Another example out of a million, My bnb combos which work fine
>> against 90%+ of the cast except against Jack.
>> I'm forced to change my timing during the tag filler or else my combo
>> drops, to me that is a deal breaker a big issue that needs to be
>> fixed.
>> When it comes to mids being ducked under is another big issue that
>> potentially fucks the system all together, mids are supposed to beat a
>> ducking opponent this is supposed to include moves that have a ducking
>> hitbox or high hitting moves.
>> This rule is written on the manual of the game and in Tekken 6 as a
>> one of the tips for new players but the game has characters that defy
>> this rule and renders it useless because you as a player must know of
>> all the wonky, character specific situations where a mid can be
>> useless.
>> I have always been aware of these moves since Tekken 3, Jin and
>> Heihachi's wd+1 and Heihachi's ff+2 go under a lot of mids in that
>> game.
>> Bottom line, TTT2 has a lot of issues that were not fixed/resolved
>> that still plagues the game.
>> They need to trim the long ass move lists, too many useless moves on
>> there.
>>
>> On 7/25/14, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Well i'm sure they are some unusual BS crushing moments. But those
>> unsual
>> > crushing moments is and always has been the same since T5 or BR...just
>> > because you do a linear mid, doesn't mean that move should beat a low or
>> > what not...just registering that your hopkick is a mid is wrong. You
>> must
>> > also consider the ACTUAL hitbox of the move...Zaf going under hopkicks
>> > makes sense because she's literally crawling while hopkick is pretty up
>> in
>> > the air even tho it's a mid.
>> >
>> > The few moves that needs bug fixing is Bruce's and Law's fff+3 hitting
>> > characters even tho they jumped across someone already...but these stuff
>> > might be hard to fix...not sure how their rigging works (but considering
>> > some characters still have animations from T3...capos...i'd say it's
>> > hard)...hopefully they'll revamp the whole movelist in T7. Capos
>> animation
>> > is so bad lolz
>> >
>> > Tracking is pretty ok. Only some roundhouse move needs better tracking
>> > (Drag's uf+4, Eddy's uf+4, etc being sidesteppable is weird...not easy
>> to
>> > ss but still, not fun when your opponent is a ss bastard)
>> >
>> > Every character have moves to deal with crushing moves...Paul's d+1 is
>> one
>> > of the best, Lee's df+4, etc. Some are very generic and
>> > non-flashy/rewarding...but it's better than eating Lili's d+3+4...
>> >
>> > My only complaint is Lars df+2 recovering super fast on wiff / hitting
>> > airborne opponent...that move is true BS...also have weird crushing
>> > property...along with his df+1 going under second hit of Tsunami's lolz
>> > Otherwise, i have no issue with any move or the game at all. :)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nah bra, not bs is bs.
>> >> Not all glitches are bs as some where beneficial to the overall meta
>> >> game.
>> >> Cross ups, links, cancels and not in SF4 p-linking or plinking are some
>> >> of
>> >> the positive glitches that were discovered and left by devs. Negative
>> >> glitches like handcuffs infinities or abnormal damage output due to
>> >> scaling
>> >> which all of which can lead to death combos etc are what is bs.
>> >> On 25 Jul 2014 16:06, "Nicholas Robertson-Muir" <nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Every fighting game has its bs.
>> >>> If it wasn't for fighting game bs, we wouldn't have had combos for as
>> >>> long as we do. Lol.
>> >>> I just hope to see some serious "flash" from the new Tekken game.
>> >>> On 25 Jul 2014 15:55, "Donaldson, Alasdair" <
>> >>> alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> There is lots of BS in the Tekken games - Aking or Julia's sweeps
>> >>>> going under hopkicks... Bob's uppercut going under demo man...Paul's
>> >>>> shoulder going through moves...
>> >>>> I love the tekken games, but there is random crap.
>> >>>> *From*: Di Lhong [mailto:numotd@xxxxxxxxx]
>> >>>> *Sent*: Friday, July 25, 2014 03:43 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> >>>> *To*: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> *Subject*: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The ones that people have issues to punish is the super strict -10
>> >>>> frames moves with weird block recovery/stun...eg. Nina's uf+3...you
>> used
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> be able to jab her once she lands on her feet...now you have to
>> >>>> punisher
>> >>>> her mid air but with the weird block recovery or frame lag...she's
>> >>>> considered grounded already...Steve's b+2, Hworang's uf+3+4, etc. all
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> same...Jack's df+2 is not part of the brokeness of the game...it's
>> been
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> same since BR...luckily he got nerfed badly in TTT2 and most people
>> >>>> learn
>> >>>> how to fight against him that he's not a threat like before...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Stuff that suddenly goes thru or weird crush system is the same as
>> BR.
>> >>>> Zaf's b+1+2 going thru or under low mids is common in BR. It's not a
>> >>>> new
>> >>>> broken thing that comes in TTT2...or Feng's qcf+1.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Manase Zote <bmlzote@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> That Blanka representation...
>> >>>>> One game is not enough.
>> >>>>> On 25 Jul 2014 15:32, "Sean Carrington" <
>> theseancarrington@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Got this from BoyX2121 this morning.
>> >>>>>> Anyone interested here?
>> >>>>>> On 25 Jul 2014 15:01, "Wynand-Ben" <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It will depend greatly on the range it used and the other
>> >>>>>>> characters punishment options.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> There are plenty of legit reasons why it could go unpunished if
>> used
>> >>>>>>> at the correct range.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:57:28 +0000
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yup, -14. Even with that people aren't punishing. Sad.
>> >>>>>>> *From*: Wynand-Ben [mailto:paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>> >>>>>>> *Sent*: Friday, July 25, 2014 02:51 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> >>>>>>> *To*: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> *Subject*: RE: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Jacks df+2 is bloody -14
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Depending on the character(mostly range issues) its not hard to
>> >>>>>>> punish.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Cant blame the game if they are asleep.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> They only reason I can see them being hesitant to punish is due to
>> >>>>>>> range.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:34:13 +0000
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Strict? Just crappy. Did you watch the Evo finals? If JDCR can't
>> >>>>>>> punish properly, how are the rest of us expected to?
>> >>>>>>> Watch the top8 and take a shot everytime you see a Jack df+2 go
>> >>>>>>> unpunished. You'll be under the table in no time at all.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> *From*: Di Lhong [mailto:numotd@xxxxxxxxx]
>> >>>>>>> *Sent*: Friday, July 25, 2014 02:19 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> >>>>>>> *To*: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> *Subject*: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yeah the punishment is much more strict than it was...due to the
>> >>>>>>> weird recovery frame.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Ryan Williams
>> >>>>>>> <ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Shit that is punishable one minute and not the next, wonky axis
>> >>>>>>> issues, etc.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Di Lhong <numotd@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What bug? the basics is still the same :)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair <
>> >>>>>>> alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> TTT2 is buggy as all hell. DR and BR were good. Tag2 is not.
>> >>>>>>> *From*: Di Lhong [mailto:numotd@xxxxxxxxx]
>> >>>>>>> *Sent*: Friday, July 25, 2014 01:46 PM South Africa Standard Time
>> >>>>>>> *To*: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> *Subject*: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> TTT2 IS good :) but solo would be cool too. so we can go back to
>> >>>>>>> our mains...
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> now i just have to find my true main...hmmm maybe it's time for
>> >>>>>>> Lee.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Poor Harada, being swarmed with the same questions by fans lolz.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Wynand-Ben
>> >>>>>>> <paashaasggx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> FU
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> TTT2 is good lol
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:27:07 +0200
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: USF4 changes!
>> >>>>>>> From: gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>> To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I hope it feels like an old Tekken game made for old people like
>> me
>> >>>>>>> :/
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 25 July 2014 13:20, Ilitirit Sama <ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/12175/20140723/tekken-7-release-date-unsure-pc-version-confirmed-jun-kazama.htm
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
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