As I've noted in recent threads there have been fragmentary
discussions about the passenger trains on the CPR's Vermont line
that have appeared in other Yahoo Group forums in recent years. In
searching the B&M forum for some information just now I came across
a post I had made in early 2005 that was itself based on information
Don Thomas had kindly researched and posted on the Passenger Car
List around the same time. Since these posts contained information
related to the "Red Wing" and "Alouette" and extra cars I thought it
would be of some interest here, a post within a post within a post
if you will.
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"In recent days there's been an interesting thread on the Yahoo
Passenger Car List concerning the numbers that appeared in the
windows (and end doors) of sleeping cars, parlor cars, and reserved-
seat coaches. These same numbers would appear on the ticket of a
passenger holding reserved space to guide them to their car.
Apparently these numbers were/are variously referred to as "car"
or "loading" numbers, the latter from the fact that they appeared on
the loading diagrams maintained by RRs for cars with reserved
accommodations. They are NOT, however, referred to as "line" numbers
which were a completely different accounting number used by Pullman.
Many RRs indicated the car/loading numbers in their PTTs and/or the
OG. The B&M was one such road (the NYC was not for example). There
was no consistency as to how these car/loading numbers (in some case
they were actually alphanumeric) were defined by various RRs. Some
RRs incorporated the train number in the number, others began with
the train-name initials (e.g. "CZ" = "California Zephyr"), and still
others used seemingly arbitrary combinations of letters and numbers.
One of the twists this thread took was how Pullman and the RRs came
up with car/loading numbers for extra cars and cars in extra moves
such as camp specials. This question was not answered completely but
Don Thomas was kind enough to post an example of how the CPR
specified numbers in advance for extra cars on the joint CPR-B&M RED
WING. Based on conductor's notebook information that Jacob Klerman
kindly posted here last year, apparently extra sleepers, both CPR-
and Pullman-operated, were not unknown on the RED WING. I thought
this information might be of interest to some B&M fans so am posting
excerpts of Don Thomas' post here:
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"Here are loading numbers for the Red Wing:
1947 and 1951: CP "Mount" - 3 cpt, 1 DR - Obs: CP 6 northbd, 468
southbd; Plmn 12Sec, 2 DBR; CP 7 northbd, extras 471 to 479, 470
southbd, extras 472 to 480.
I would guess the northbound extras are odd numbered and the
southbound are even, because in 1947 the daytime Alouette had a
Buffet Obs Parlor number 489, extras 491, 493 and 495 northbound, and
number 490, extras 492, 494 and 496 southbound. In the summer of 1951
there was a second parlor north of St Johnsbury, 491 north and 492
south.
1952 and 1954: CP "Cape" - 4 DBR, 1 Cpt - Solarium: CP 6 northbd,
210A southbd; Plmn 12-2 CP 7 northbd, "extras 8, 9, etc", 210B
southbd, "extras 210C etc." (Southbound train was 210 on CP).
1955-56-57: CP "Cape", same as 1952-54. Pullman 12-2 replaced by
CP "Grove" 10 rtte, 5 DBR with same numbers.
October 1957, same cars, Cape is car 290 north, 3001 south; Grove is
291 north, (no extras mentioned) 3002 south, "extras 3003, etc.". CP
train numbers are now 29 north, 30 south.
April 1958, same as above except Pullman 12-2 replaces CP Grove
during the summer.
October 1958 same as October 1957.
April 1959, Grove car only, 291-3002, except replaced by Pullman 1
rtte, 6 DBR in summer only [Note...I think Don meant "10 rmt" here.]
The loading numbers appear to be assigned by the originating carrier.
Probably there was consultation with receiving roads to make sure
that no numbers duplicated cars in other trains on a portion of the
route."
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FWIW, I've been including the loading-number indicators and loading
numbers in my recent models. I was inspired to do this after I built
my first BGR Group resin kit some years ago. They mentioned this
detail and nowadays even include the Black Cat decals that allow
this to be done easily. Even though only one number can be displayed
of course just the fact that these indicators and numbers are there
really lends a lot of realism to a model. It's one of those cases
where a seemingly small, insignificant detail really stands out on
the finished model.
John S. Horvath
