I have an old PFM system and ENJOY it completely! No way in heck I could
afford to put DCC in all my models. DCC works for some, yes, just not for
me. I'll stick with my PFM system. Lastly, don't begrudge me or anyone else
because we use a PFM system and not DCC. Had DCC once, won't have it again.
Just wasn't what I liked.
Dave
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Randall Lee banjopicker1949@xxxxxxxxx
[cpsig] <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
David,
It sounds like what you are doing is working for you. You need to stick
with it. Problem is, too many people using DCC think it is the only way to
go. I don't agree with that. I am not saying that PFM is the only way to
go, use what works for you. PFM was never designed to run your 50 car
freight with 3 locomotives.
I know a lot of model railroaders and most of them never run more than one
loco at a time. It is like when I was building the GME sound system, our
moto was "One Locomotive, One engineer, the way it should be". Yes, the
majority of them are running narrow gauge but a lot are HO standard gauge.
I say again, do what works for you but what you are doing is not for
everyone.
Working PFM units are going in the 350 dollar range right now on eBay.
Once my upgrades are finished and available, they will probably go up.
Randy Lee
gme@xxxxxxxxx
On Friday, August 19, 2016 7:42 AM, "David HILL techill@xxxxxxxxxx
[cpsig]" <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
When my old club was DC the former leader was so against DCC . He pushed
his PFM sound on everybody . He died of heart failure in 2006. the boys
pulled out the PFM sound as soon as they could . I started buying DCC
equipped locos even though we were still running on DC . It was decided
to convert .It was a 4 month job the layout was 140 x 40 feet !! and a
virtual spagetti bowl of track . There was over 400 turn outs we never
looked back .It was decided to do NCE I had digicrap Zepher for my
under the christmas tree layout and a hand controller for running on a
freemo group layout I sold the hand controller to a friend when I left
the freemo group. .. The Ac adapter craped out I called Digicrap and was
told they did not have any ac adapters left for that model no offer of a
partial credit so into the landfill with the digicrap throttle . To me
they really suck as a company. They don't like that send me a new Zepher
That works!!! Over 230 bucks in the green round file . Now how much does a
PFM system go for on e bay . now days . We did not even try to sell it
because we knew they did not work at that point . We would have given the
units to you for the cost of the shipping !! Now my present club models
2000 and newer we run 50 car freights with 3 locos all speed matched
locos on the point and the tail and they run beautifully . Try that with
your PFM system . Now I will let you in on something Our member KJ has
developed a diesel control stand throttle operating off A NCE procab It
is a whole new world of DCC. Its really cool to run with only thing there
is 3 years of development and thousands of hours work invested . Only a DCC
gruru could build a throttle like it. He used to build circuitry for
cruise missles now his knowledge of electronics unreal Now one word he
uses QSI decoders or reprograms ESU decoders so #7 is progressive braking .
Try that with a PFM system . Now as for dirty track KJ installs keep alive
units in all his installation we have 13 scale miles of track so its a
big job keeping track spotless A PFM system is ok for a single loco STEAM
on a loop of track as my friend KJ says stick a xmas tree up on the layout
and have fun. As I said its keeping 8 tracks and beta units alive!!! The
way I see it
David E Hill E MAIL techill@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:00 PM, "Randall Lee
banjopicker1949@xxxxxxxxx [cpsig]" <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
David,
I respect your opinion because everyone is entitled to one. Why you would
say it is a bitch to install PFM sound, I do not understand. It is the
easiest to do. Very few components and easy to hook up. The hardest part
is properly installing a speaker and a cam. If you are doing a proper
installation of DCC, you need both of them also.
Yes, you are going to have some steam escaping on a steam locomotive. If
you were hearing too much from your PFM or Fife unit, it had a problem and
should have been serviced. If you were getting too much "Racket" going
down a straight track, you had some dirty track and wheels. That was one
of the nice things about a PFM sound equipped loco, you could run it with
the SOUND OFF and if you heard noise, you knew the track was dirty.
You obviously love your DCC and I am very happy for you. It is ashamed
you threw your PFM units away. There are a lot of people out there that
would love to have them.
Randy Lee
On Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:10 AM, "David HILL techill@xxxxxxxxxx
[cpsig]" <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I get a bit of a laugh out of this. The PFM system made static noise that
kinda represented steam . It not make the sound of diesels . And back in
the day of PFM there was Fife It offered superior sound . I did buy a
fife system . Now the dorks that think installing a PFM or fFife system
quite obviously have never done one . To put it mildly its a bitch of a
job . And get a PFM sound loco on straight DC the racket . The loco will
end up on the floor if it survives the PFM will be ripped out . There
were 2 PFM systems on the floor at my old club just gathering dust. We
went DCC and those PFM boxes went in the dumpster when the club closed Now
DCC is not that difficult to install or Buy a loco with the system done at
the factory or get a pro to do it . Now I myself have a pro do it .
There is a learning curve to sound engineering . Speaker enclosures and
placement can make all the difference. At our club we have the gruru of
sound . KJ yes he is a living, breathing, farting ,person. lol. His
engines far out perform factory stuff (Rapido) for sound . His knowledge
of DCC is amazing . My way of looking at it is I would rather have one
consist of locos with convincing sound rather than a round house full of
loos with cheap decoders and poorly installed speaker systems . Also I have
had 2 DCC systems first Digicrap then NCE wonder which one I prefer. So
in conclusion I guess PFM sound is ok for those still listening to their 8
track with k tel audio tapes and watching their favorite movie on beta .The
way I see it
David E Hill E MAIL techill@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:07 AM, "Dave Audley audleydave@xxxxxxxxx
[cpsig]" <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
While DCC and it's attending sound is definitely here to stay, there are
still a lot
of modellers who don't want the expense of adding DCC sound. That costs
typically
$100.00 plus for the decoder and possibly an installation cost as well.
Then, there is some irritation with a number of engines running sound in
an idle engine
facility. Sort of like standing close to Alyth engine house - about 5
miniuts and it is
time to move on!
I have visited 3 layout running the old PFM system anf I think this is
very worth while
for those wanting some sound without the complexity of DCC.
As I have said before, DCC hasn't really matured. When you can buy engines
already
with the cab number address factory programmed and can put that engine on
the track
with a DCC system that handshakes with the engine, putting into an owners
list that
automatically sets all the CV's the owner wants, then DCC will be mature.
DCC should
also automattically add additional handhelds, assigning cab numbers as
units are
added to the system.
I know of a fairly large number of folks who have tried DCC and then
walked away. If
you don't have a buddy to help with DCC, it becomes too complex.
There needs to be another generation of DCC to make this happen.
Dave Audley
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 6:33 PM, "richardmcquade@xxxxxxxxxx
[cpsig]" <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Randy,
I am intrigued by the possibility of the updated PFM sound system. I only
run loco at a time and have not embraced DCC largely due to the
infrastructure costs and installation challenges with older engines. This
could be the answer to getting sound on my railroad.
Best of luck!
Richard
