Re: [cpsig] Gyralights (was Re: Domes and icicle breaker cars)
- From: "K V Railway" <kvrailway@xxxxxxx>
- To: <cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:01:16 -0800
I have inserted comments into the original text attached below, prefixed as
'JDS.'
Joe Smuin
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Cummings
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 10:17 AM
To: cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [cpsig] Gyralights (was Re: Domes and icicle breaker cars)
The Canadian usually was handled by FP's but it was handled by Geeps on more
than one occasion. Several groups of geeps were passenger equipped although
the Dominion was far more likely to be handled by Geeps than the Canadian.
An FP-GP-FP combination was also quite common as were FP-FB-FB's or FP-GP-GP
or FP-GP-FB or other variations thereof. And there are lots of photos that
show an RS18 in the consist as well, but generally speaking they did not run
RS18's west of Calgary.
JDS: But they (RS10-RS18 units) did occasionally show up on the Canadian
west of Calgary.
I remember one such unit showing up at Kamloops as a trailing unit in the
westbound Canadian. I think it was during the airline strike of 1976 when
extra passenger trains were put on to handle transcontinental travellers.
So far we've engaged in a LOT of conjecture. Nobody on this
list has yet produced ANYTHING from the CPR or other contemporary
sources stating the purpose of these roof-mounted lights.
JDS: You have had your questions about the use of the roof mounted
lights answered by knowledgeable old-timers. What more do you expect?
The type of company documentation you seek probably no longer exists.
The information that has been supplied to you was common knowledge
amongst concerned railway employees through the years. What we've told you
is not
conjecture and when we don't know for sure, we say so. If knowledgeable
old-timers are disagreeing with what I and other old-timers have told you,
then they are doing it very privately. I haven't had anybody genuinely
knowledgeable quarrel with the answers I or people like Roger Burrows
have given you, so what's the problem?
Though I'd
personally side with the PR angle. And it would work fine until The
Canadian was led by an RS10, RS18, GP9, E8, or even a steam-jenny
fitted Train Master.
JDS: You assume that ice-breaker equipped and roof mounted lights
were crucial or even mandatory equipment for units assigned to
the Canadian. They weren't, especially in an emergency.
I remember many times when the Canadian was handled
by a couple of passenger service equipped GP9 units. They certainly did not
have roof
lights or icicle breakers.
But this "never" happened, did it? ;)
JDS: As for 'what happened' - You wouldn't believe 'what
happened' though there may no longer be the documentation you desire. Any
documentation still extant will be in the form of photos, train orders and
such
stuff that people sometimes hang onto. In an emergency, any road unit could
be
pressed into service if it was all that was immediately at hand. I put
many thousands of gallons of
water and diesel into the Canadian, as both trains passed through Kamloops
in the
middle of the night. By the time I was at Kamloops, the roof-mounted lights
usually weren't
turned on by the enginemen. The occasional times when they were used is
what
makes them so memorable to me.
Yet was the CPR not fitting RDC's with Gyralites for improved public
crossing visual conspicuity at about the time that The Canadian was
introduced to the travelling public? Which raises the possibility that
the CPR also wanted to make The Canadian more visible to motorists?
JDS: The Budd cars mostly came into service a wee bit behind the
Canadian - if I'm not mistaken. They were a whole different kettle of fish.
They were quiet, quick and deadly. Completely unlike the roof lights on
the FP7-9 units assigned to the Canadian, the installation of Gyralites on
the Budds
was strictly practical in nature. They increased the visibility of the
oncoming
budds for both the public and employees. They also served as an
early style ditch light, which was more than a little bit useful in bad
terrain. I well remember the arrival of the Budds on the KV territory and
the subsequent discussions about them amongst the railroad crowd.
And as suggested, if Dean and Hanna are wrong in their book's photo
caption regarding these lights' purpose, what else is also inaccurate
in that book? To assert that Dean and Hanna printed an inaccurate
caption in their book on CP's diesel locos is also to raise the
spectre of other inaccuracies contained in it. Which opens a can of
worms...
So is Dean and Hanna's book not to be relied on?
JDS: Dean and Hanna's book may rightly be considered the Bible for
the first 35 years of diesel operation on the CPR. However, like any
publication, it is not infallible. The authors did their best with the
information they could get their hands on. It wasn't always complete
nor necessarily completely accurate. You wouldn't believe the
contradictions
in official records sometimes. I pretty near went crazy trying to reconcile
the differences in engineering records when I wrote the KV Mileboards book.
Joe Smuin
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