Dear All,
if we were to go back to the archive
we would find quite a few posts dealing with 'forgiveness'
This time I am wondering to what an extent
is it a Christian 'problem'?
All of us who were brought up Christians
have these lines running in our veins:
"....
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
..."
What is the spirit of these lines?
Our desire to be as close to, if not equal to
the Lord to whom we dedicate this prayer
as indicated by it, just one line below, almost on a par?
Our readiness to be judged by this Lord
just as we are ready to judge others in turn?
For me the answer is yes both times
which makes it impossible for me to use the term
in context with constellations
actually impossible to use at all.
Forgiveness and judgement are inseparable.
Judgement and phenomenology are mutually exclusive.
Ergo....
Simply replacing the term forgiveness by acceptance
frees us from the burden of judgement
yet connects us to the one we felt disconnected from,
thus strengthening us.
Max
Melbourne, Australia
www.HarmonyInHumanSystems.com
Hi Stephen,
I would be careful about following any theory or dictum too rigidly,
even Family Constellations. If the need to forgive bubbles up in the
middle of a constellation, then so be it. Trust the bubbles! We run
the risk as facilitator's of becoming moral judges by saying "no" to
something because a theory says we should not do it/allow it. Bert
would ask if something strengthened or weakened a client. Perhaps
that is good to keep in the back of your mind. And in the words of
Emerson:
"Trust yourself; every heart vibrates to that iron string."
All the best y mucha suerte,
Bill Mannle
On Jul 30, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Margreet Mossel wrote:
Hi Stephen.
Nice to hear from someone from Lima, Peru. My father has been
teaching there
for many years at the medical university.
You raise an important and recurring question for our work about
forgiveness.
Maybe forgiving is something that seems to be needed between two
people when
one has taken more and the other has given more, which is the basic
dynamic
for all perpetrators and victims. But if you look beyond the
individuals at
the soul level, you (they) can see that both are in service of
something
greater. And therefore they don't need to look at each other but at
the
soul. With that they acknowledge that there is an other force
involved. If
you widen your view and your hart even further to the spirit level,
you
become aware that these powers are so much bigger that you cant
even look at
them but look over them into the distance, a direction where you might
expect that the creative force is coming from. If you imagine yourself
looking at the spirit, or in the direction of the spirit, or the
creative
force, then something like forgiveness is completely inappropriate.
That
would mean that you have an opinion and a judgement about what has
happened
and that you can decide if it was not good or it was a bad thing.
But we
cannot judge life in this way. So it is also about not only about
making
yourself bigger than the other person but also about feeling bigger
than the
forces that rule life as we perceive it. From the constellation
work we
already know how little of our live is steered by free will, most
important
things in life are determined long before I was even born. Maybe
the main
field of our free will is that we are free to grow and that we are
free to
decide how we deal with what life puts on our path. Instead of
forgiving
someone I could think about YES to the circumstances. And the small
area
where I can influence the balance between giving and taking for me
feels
more active than just forgiving, sometimes it is just real hard
work to
restore an imbalance that is my responsibility, whether I am the
perpetrator
or the victim.
Maybe what seems a good idea or a good solution at one level looks
different
if you look at it from another level.
Now psychology has always looked at the interaction or behaviour
between two
or more people, but it has no model for soul or spirit. It could be
that
religion in any form had that function but - at least where I live,
in the
Netherlands - religion has become a do-it-yourself thing too.
Everyone has
created his or her own gods, beliefs, ideas, but I very often see that
people are not even aware of on which level they act or think:
physical,
emotional, mental, soul, spirit etc. This unclarity causes many
confusion
between many groups and methods and this is easily solved with a good
understanding, (you might even call it anatomy) of the metaphysical
layers
of humanity.
Or another example comes to my mind. A young child that has done
something
that upsets the parents might say to them: sorry. But it has not yet
developed an understanding of taking responsibility for its deeds
in the way
as an adult has. Bert Hellinger has written many very clear and
inspiring
explanations of guilt and innocence in relations and the several
ways to
deal with it on each level of consciousness.
At the moment I am not so frequent on internet as I used to be
since my
house was burned and I live a bit like a homeless (and computer-
less!!)
person. So it might take some time before I can react to questions or
remarks. Sorry for that. But I have also already noticed a while
ago how
funny it feels when people begin to give interpretations or
explanations of
what I have written....
All the best to all my colleagues!
Margreet Mossel
www.opstellingen.com <http://www.opstellingen.com/>
_____
Van: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Namens Stephen Campbell
Verzonden: woensdag 30 juli 2008 21:39
Aan: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: [ConstellationTalk] The Role of Forgiveness in
Constellations
Dear Group,
I just discovered this group by chance and have been fascinated by
the most
recent dialogue regarding good and evil; and judgement and
retribution. The
thoughtfulness of the exchanges is remarkable and most educational.
Thus, I
feel comfortable and privileged to be able to pose and ask the
following
question.
I am on the verge of completing the three year Facilitator
Certification
given by the Instituto Bert Hellinger de Argentina. The course is
given
obviously in Spanish which I have spoken since a very small child
though all
my university and post-graduate work and my training as a therapist
has been
in English. I have observed numerous constellation facilitated by the
docents from the Instituto and I myself had facilitated over 70
since we
were granted permission to practice. I bore you with this bit of
personal
background so as to give you a context for my question. I
understood during
my training that to either seek or to grant forgiveness is
verboten. The
rationale, as I understood it, is that this would put the person
who grants
forgiveness in an apparent "superior" position. As a result
procedurally it
is possible to suggest that the apparent "perpetrator" say to the
"victim"
"I am sorry." And, thus begin the healing process. But, that it is not
appropriate for the "victim" to say to the "perpetrator" ( in
whatever form
the "perpetrator" may appear) "I forgive you".
I have always found in the therapeutic environment that forgiveness
was such
a powerful act as it both distinguishes between the persona and the
act;
and, in my experience, provides such relief and value to the person
forgiving, I was very surprised at this apparent contradictory
accepted
posture/practice in Family Constellations.
The bottom line is: Have I understood this precept of the work
correctly or
was something lost in my head in the process of translation?
I shall very much look forward to your opinions, thoughts and
comments.
Sincerely,
Stephen
Lima, Peru
Stephen Campbell
MA, R.Sc.P., MPNLP (Health), ND (Candidate)
904.430.0248
888.303.2636
51.1.447.6652
51.1.995.512 315
coachuno@gmail. <mailto:coachuno%40gmail.com> com
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