Michael,
Both are paying work. The difference is the deadline for each. If I have to
finish a story for an editor, that takes priority. The other difference is the
commission is generally a one-time event unless the person commissioning the
piece is a real fan. The artist has to think long term. The editor represents a
lot more work (AKA paychecks) than the commission.
The upfront deposit let’s me know the person is a serious buyer. By not asking
for more, I maintain flexibility with my schedule. I work to get it done, I
maintain communication but no hard deadline promises have been made because
things happen.
Everyone who commissions me gets their piece within a reasonable amount of
time, generally 3 to 4 weeks, though I may gone up to 6 weeks once or twice.
Ken Penders
Sent from my iPhone
On May 31, 2021, at 11:10 AM, Michael Browning via groups.io
<greatonefrommatewan=yahoo.com@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ken, what is the difference in steady paying work and paying commission work?
I’ve never understood the difference. I mean, if an artist takes on a
commission, I understand it should be done between your regular jobs, but, if
it’s that much of a burden, then why take it on? In the end, that commission
is income for you, too, so I have never understood why artists feel like they
can push paying work to the back burner when it is, after all, PAYING work.
I’ve always figured that was the artist’s way of saying “I’ll get to it when
I feel like it, so I’m probably going to take a lot longer than what I’ll
tell you.”
Michael Browning
Sent from my iPhone
On May 31, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Ken Penders via groups.ioI thought I’d inject the artist’s perspective into this discussion.
<KenPenders=yahoo.com@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If you’re someone commissioning from me for the first time, I’ll ask what
you want and provide options - pencil, inked, 1 figure, a scene, etc - and
prices. If they say they want to do it, I’ll provide a rough sketch and
request a $50 deposit to go forward.
If you’re a returning customer, I request the deposit before the sketch
because I’ve already established you’re going to get your drawing.
Once the sketch is approved, I move to finish pencils. If that’s the
finished product, I send a JPG and request balance due plus shipping &
handling, which I quote at the beginning of the process.
If the piece is to be inked, I send the JPG of the pencils for approval so
as to allow for any minor changes before committing to finished inks.
At this point, final payment is made, or, if a digital color version is
requested, I require a 2nd deposit.
Once this version is completed, final payment plus shipping & handling is
requested before sending the original art along with a 600dpi digital color
JPG.
All throughout the process I make it clear that while I will do my best to
complete the piece within 2 to 3 weeks, that is not a drop dead deadline as
I have steady paying work that is the priority.
I have never not completed a commissioned piece and usually complete it
within the initial timeframe quoted. If there is a delay, I notify the
person my schedule is backed up a bit.
It doesn’t take much for one bad apple to result in others being tarred with
the same feather, but the majority of artists doing commissions are
dedicated professionals who appreciate those supporting their work. I
certainly do.
Ken Penders
On May 31, 2021, at 7:20 AM, jeffrey Harnett <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Well said. Credit also for letting other collector's know before they may
have been in the same situation.
On Monday, May 31, 2021, 10:17:24 AM EDT, Wallace Harrington
<w.wallace.harrington@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I do not think I was rationalizing the artist (although not certain what
that means).
Like Malcolm, I have donated to some of the groups designed to help
artists, but I have always felt that it was better, both for the psyche and
the wallet, to pay for a service than give a handout. Again, as Malcolm
mentioned, you can sympathize (there but for the grace of God go I) and
simultaneously be angry when the good deed is spat upon. If Grindberg had
responded to any of the four e-mails asking for an update, I could have
been more patient. But his total disregard and apparent lack of respect
for me or memory of even taking the money just infuriates me. I cannot
respect someone that does these things as an artist or a person. I don't
wish him ill, but I'd sure like a telephone number to call him and tell him
what I think.
Wally Harrington
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:02 AM William Banick
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jeffrey,
Actually, I agree with you. I am simply stating why we as collectors
rationalized for the Artist.
Sincerely,
Bill
Pursuing the Effortless...
BigFaceLoveYoga.com
🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
On May 31, 2021, at 9:46 AM, jeffrey Harnett
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
William I Respectfully could not disagree with you more.
Bottom line you make an agreement for work (in this case artwork) and they
request your payment Up Front. Fine you do that and comply and then the
artist in this case does not deliver. 100 % wrong, no excuses. Again, fan
boy mentality ("enamored with their skills and abilities") even though
they Stole the money.
I understand our love and respect for the artist's work but when this sort
of a situation arises you have to call it what it is.
On Monday, May 31, 2021, 09:35:27 AM EDT, William Banick
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jeffrey,
We do give leeway to the Artist as we are passionate and enamored with
their skills and abilities and end product.
I cannot say the same for pipes that work and I rarely see or wires that
have been replaced.
Art may be considered more a luxury than a necessity, though it enhances
my life.
Frank Lloyd Wright’s quote comes to mind:
Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the
necessities.
It was easier for him to say given his abilities and reputation!
Sincerely,
Bill
Pursuing the Effortless...
BigFaceLoveYoga.com
🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
On May 31, 2021, at 9:27 AM, jeffrey Harnett
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well put Michael. I think collector's sometimes look for excuses for
these artist's that do not deliver.
On Monday, May 31, 2021, 09:23:40 AM EDT, Michael Finn
<michael.f.finn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If someone takes money, they need to deliver on or very close to the
date. The end.
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:21 AM jeffrey Harnett
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Commissions are an important part of the hobby. Many are fine
illustrations of an artist's talents.
The problem is when an artist takes your money and Does Not do the "Right
Thing" they are Totally at fault. If they are having problems (as we all
do) then do not take money up front and screw the collector.
Plain and simple many of us give them too much empathy because we are fan
boys and hold them in high regard.
You would not accept that behavior from your plumber or electrician,etc..
On Monday, May 31, 2021, 07:59:09 AM EDT, Mark Nevins
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Malcolm,
Really good points and really nicely expressed.
I only collect published art and have no interest in commissions, and I
am routinely surprised when I realize what a large part of the collecting
habits of many comic fans commissions are, and how much money is spent on
them.
My tendency is to get angry at the artists when I hear the tales of
non-delivery, but you put everything into perspective quite clearly and
add a useful dollop of empathy.
People who have multiple outstanding paid for commissions and continue to
engage in more remind me a little bit of that famous observation about
second marriages: “it’s the triumph of hope over experience.”
Mark Nevins
On May 31, 2021, at 05:44, Malcolm Bourne <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
It’s a ‘both’/“and’ situation, isn’t it. We can both sympathies and
understand someone who is suffering/broke, and also be justifiably angry
if they have not produced promised work. It also seems - but I might be
wrong about this - that there is something about the sort of mindset that
leads you into this sort of creative career, that is also more vulnerable
to the disorganisational aspects that in turn can translate into, for
example, not drawing what has been paid for, and/or not being able to
turn your talent into a regular paying job, or not fulfilling those sorts
of contractual obligations and therefore not being offered that sort of
work. And of course things like marital splits, and pandemics, exacerbate
these things.
And, as I have written about before, there is, at least in my opinion, a
potential ‘power imbalance’ between the provider of the art, and the
collector and therefore purchaser of the art - which in some ways is the
exact opposite of the imbalance between the publisher who pays for the
artists’ work, and the artist who draws it.
On top of that, for most comics creators, even if they make a living from
it, it rarely provides enough income to manage life when not working,
when retired etc, unless you have been lucky enough to work for one of
the bigger companies on staff and accrue those sorts of benefits -
including medical, which is such a big thing if you live in a country
without socialised health care.
Hence, things like Hero Initiative, the rise of the GoFundMe scenario,
and things like Jose Delbo reportedly selling NFTs for a 7-figure sum
which I am sure he sorely needs to live off.
As a collector i have been very vocal in the past about artists who do
not produce, I have ’named and shamed’ (Goldengate, anyone??) and I agree
wholly with Wally here. I no longer pay up front for art that doesn’t yet
exist apart from in rare circumstances when the artist is such a good
friend that I really do know it’s coming. i still have one friend in
comics (writer not artist) who owes me significant money, and I still
have a couple of commissions owing, and therefore money outstanding -
thankfully just a few hundred dollars, not thousands - for some years. I
firmly believe no artist or anyone else for that matter should take money
for work unless they know they can deliver, at the agreed time, and have
organised their diaries to do so. I don’t know Tom personally, I think we
met once, and I do sympathise with his plight, and FWIW I have
periodically donated money directly through things like GoFndMe or HI to
help out those who, to coin a phrase that is all too true, are less
fortunate than I am.
Malcolm
On 31 May 2021, at 05:32, RAYMOND CUTHBERT <rcuthber@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Wally:
Tom Grindberg has had an awful year in which he has tried changing
residences (and states) after the loss of his marriage, wound up in a
natural disaster zone, tried to get back to his home state, wound up in
the hospital during Covid19 and a friend started up a "Go Fund Me" page
to help him financially.
Tom has been posting on Facebook fairly often recently, usually posting
old artwork. I have not seen much of anything new from him since all
this trouble began. He does seem to be in dire straits and I wonder if
he even has any art materials. He is asking for money on Facebook quite
frequently.
He was much more responsive to requests and commissions prior to all
these disasters in his life.
I'm sorry that his misfortunes have spilled over onto your life.
Best wishes!
- Ray Cuthbert
From: "Wallace Harrington" <w.wallace.harrington@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "comicartl" <comicartl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2021 10:59:43 PM
Subject: [comicart-l] Tom Grindberg
I need to discuss Tom Grindberg.
Over the last couple of years, a lot of collectors have been singing his
praises so loudly so that I was moved to buy two of his Tarzan strips.
Looking at them, they are Frazetta-inspired and derivative, but still
very pretty to look at.
A friend mentioned to me that Grindberg had been on Facebook bemoaning
his financial fate and suggested he might be open to a commission. I
contacted him in mid-February and he responded quickly. Over the course
of 9 e-mails, I told him what I wanted, he said he'd love to do it and
he gave me a price. I told him I'd pay half upfront and the remainder
when I approve a sketch.
"No, no, no," he said, "I need all of it now". I explained that I had
commissioned a number of other artists who took forever or, in some
cases, I never got the work. He went into his wife leaving him and his
financial situation and again said he needed the money. He promised to
have a sketch in a week and the piece complete in 6 weeks. So, like a
fool, I paid... and three months later he won't even respond to any of
my e-mails requesting updates.
My friend mentioned it on Facebook, and Grindberg asked what I had
requested. He apparently had no recollection of the discussion; he
definitely took the money though. I now understand he is asking for
money again.
I understand that life has been difficult the last year but I have lost
all sympathy for him. The guy may be a talented artist but is still a
jerk that doesn't keep his promises. He is on my Fecal Roster, for
sure. I suggest being careful in dealing with him especially for
commissions.
Wally Harrington
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#567) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This
Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe
[greatonefrommatewan@xxxxxxxxx]
_._,_._,_
