Re: [CollabLaw] Digest Number 2170

From: ejesq@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 21:45:51 +0000

I am concerned that there is an assumption that an arrest means that the Party
is guilty. Perhaps the case should be put on hold to determine whether there
will be charges an whether the Partys 5th amendment rights need to beprotected.
Elizabeth Jones
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Date: 4 Mar 2008 19:14:19
To:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CollabLaw] Digest Number 2170

Practitioners of Collaborative Law.

      Practitioners of Collaborative Law.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CollabLaw;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOWxsdTdxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI0MTQwNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDU5MzU0BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMjA0NjU4MDU5>


Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)

1a.
  Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process? From: brutoria@xxxxxxx 1b.
  Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process? From: Ada Gonzalez 1c.
  Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process? From: Ariel Winger 1d.
  Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process? From: Thomas Darnton

2.
  IACP Collaborative Review From: alanfrisher

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1a.


        Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process?
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CollabLaw/message/11410;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaDhvcG1kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI0MTQwNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDU5MzU0BG1zZ0lkAzExNDEwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMDQ2NTgwNTk->

Posted by: "brutoria@xxxxxxx"
      brutoria@xxxxxxx       <mailto:brutoria@xxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20Does%20a%20DV%20arrest%20per%20se%20end%20the%20CL%20process%3F>
          brucepecklaw
         <http://profiles.yahoo.com/brucepecklaw>

Mon Mar 3, 2008 2:09 pm (PST)

Stephani:

Ron Ousky and I have a similar case. We stepped in when the OFP was
scheduled, and worked out a stipulated agreement with the parties. While the
case has
been challenging, they are looking better, and we are optimistic that we can
get them to final settlement.

Sure can't say your case would work out the same, but if you have good
relationships with the parties, and they are willing to do so, why not give it
a
try. They both have to be on the same page. Would be glad to share more
offline if it would be helpful.

Take Care

Bruce Peck
Collaborative Family Practice
14761 Oak Run Lane
Burnsville, MN 55306
(952) 435-6799
_bpecklaw@aol. <mailto:_bpecklaw%40aol.com> com_ (mailto:bpecklaw@aol. ;
<mailto:bpecklaw%40aol.com> com)

In a message dated 3/3/2008 3:19:04 P.M. Central America Standard Ti,
stefani@lawlady. <mailto:stefani%40lawlady.com> com writes:

I have a tricky situation.

A client to a col law case was arrested and charged with Domestic Violence.
The couple has a parenting agreement as to dates/times and due to some
changes in the schedule, some hot emotions, and some potential drinking when
the client was not supposed to be drinking, the altercation happened. The
parenting plan provides for Plan B if there is drinking. One client says no
drinking occurred and this episode does not trigger Plan B. Do you think
that this arrest terminates the collaborative process per se? Must lawyers
withdraw? The clients are on the fence about whether to withdraw. I think
that the couple has been clear that they don't want to return to the divorce
coach on the case. We've used mediation in the past to reach a parenting
plan. Another option would be to return to mediation to discuss does Plan B
apply. One spouse feels this is ridiculous and a waste of time because
clearly the police report said alcohol was used.

Thank you.

Stefani Quane
206/932-9699

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  (5)  1b.


        Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process?
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CollabLaw/message/11411;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZGNlZXE2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI0MTQwNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDU5MzU0BG1zZ0lkAzExNDExBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMDQ2NTgwNTk->

Posted by: "Ada Gonzalez"
      ada@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       <mailto:ada@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20Does%20a%20DV%20arrest%20per%20se%20end%20the%20CL%20process%3F>
          ada21luz4
         <http://profiles.yahoo.com/ada21luz4>

Mon Mar 3, 2008 3:00 pm (PST)

Stefani,

It is tricky! I would say you have to be very careful with this situation.
If the police says alcohol was involved, and the client is not willing to
take responsibility for it, nor it willing to abide by previously agreed
Plan B, I think the possibility of manipulation and more abuse is there and
could be increased by trying to continue the col process. Safety of clients
and children always should be the first consideration. But, again, you know
the clients and I don't. . .

Ada
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Ada Gonzalez, Ph.D., LMFT
Principal, GrowthCoach
Coaching People for Change and Growth
Email: ada@growth-coach. <mailto:ada%40growth-coach.com> com
Web site: www.growth-coach.com
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
"Reach high, for stars lie hidden in your soul.
Dream deep, for every dream precedes the goal."
-Pamela Vaull Starr

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Lawlady <stefani@lawlady.
<mailto:stefani%40lawlady.com> com> wrote:

I have a tricky situation.

A client to a col law case was arrested and charged with Domestic
Violence.
The couple has a parenting agreement as to dates/times and due to some
changes in the schedule, some hot emotions, and some potential drinking
when
the client was not supposed to be drinking, the altercation happened. The
parenting plan provides for Plan B if there is drinking. One client says
no
drinking occurred and this episode does not trigger Plan B. Do you think
that this arrest terminates the collaborative process per se? Must lawyers

withdraw? The clients are on the fence about whether to withdraw. I think
that the couple has been clear that they don't want to return to the
divorce
coach on the case. We've used mediation in the past to reach a parenting
plan. Another option would be to return to mediation to discuss does Plan
B
apply. One spouse feels this is ridiculous and a waste of time because
clearly the police report said alcohol was used.

Thank you.

Stefani Quane
206/932-9699

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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  (5)  1c.


        Re: Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process?
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CollabLaw/message/11412;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNjlzbWJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI0MTQwNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDU5MzU0BG1zZ0lkAzExNDEyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMDQ2NTgwNTk->

Posted by: "Ariel Winger"
      arielwinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:arielwinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3A%20Does%20a%20DV%20arrest%20per%20se%20end%20the%20CL%20process%3F>
          arielwinger2000
         <http://profiles.yahoo.com/arielwinger2000>

Mon Mar 3, 2008 3:57 pm (PST)

Hi Stefani,

I am new to collaborative but spent over 5 years as a DV victim attorney and
over 10 years in the field as an advocate/counselor, so wanted to chime in.
It is hard to advise without more information, but in my experience, an
arrest for DV generally involves more than alcohol and hot emotions, so my
guess is that there was some type of physical abuse or threat. If so, then
this case may need more intervention than an agreement to stop drinking by
the abuser spouse. Is there a history of DV? If so, does the
victim/survivor spouse have a strong coach who is familiar with DV dynamics?
Does the abuser spouse (if that is the case) take responsibility for the
abuse? What other steps are being taken to protect the parties and children
in this case (besides abstinence)? These are just some thoughts and I would
be happy to consult with you off list if you like.

Best,

Ariel

_______________
Ariel B. Winger
Attorney at Law
2832 College Avenue
Berkeley, CA 94705

510-845-4457 (T)
510-845-1209 (F)
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From: CollabLaw@yahoogrou <mailto:CollabLaw%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
[mailto:CollabLaw@yahoogrou ;<mailto:CollabLaw%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] On
Behalf
Of Lawlady
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:19 PM
To: CollabLaw@yahoogrou <mailto:CollabLaw%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
Subject: [CollabLaw] Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process?

I have a tricky situation.

A client to a col law case was arrested and charged with Domestic Violence.
The couple has a parenting agreement as to dates/times and due to some
changes in the schedule, some hot emotions, and some potential drinking when

the client was not supposed to be drinking, the altercation happened. The
parenting plan provides for Plan B if there is drinking. One client says no
drinking occurred and this episode does not trigger Plan B. Do you think
that this arrest terminates the collaborative process per se? Must lawyers
withdraw? The clients are on the fence about whether to withdraw. I think
that the couple has been clear that they don't want to return to the divorce

coach on the case. We've used mediation in the past to reach a parenting
plan. Another option would be to return to mediation to discuss does Plan B
apply. One spouse feels this is ridiculous and a waste of time because
clearly the police report said alcohol was used.

Thank you.

Stefani Quane
206/932-9699

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        Does a DV arrest per se end the CL process?
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CollabLaw/message/11413;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYnJ2Nm11BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI0MTQwNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDU5MzU0BG1zZ0lkAzExNDEzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMDQ2NTgwNTk->

Posted by: "Thomas Darnton"
      tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       <mailto:tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3ADoes%20a%20DV%20arrest%20per%20se%20end%20the%20CL%20process%3F>
          tomdarnton
         <http://profiles.yahoo.com/tomdarnton>

Mon Mar 3, 2008 7:39 pm (PST)

Stefani and Colleagues,

This post actually raises two issues: DV and alcohol abuse. As to
the first question, I think there are some forms of situational acting
out that fall within the definition of domestic violence but which do
not preclude starting or continuing with Collaborative Practice.

However, it is necessary for the participants to be able to make and
keep agreements for CP, or any process based on contractual agreement,
to work. With the facts presented in this post, the drinker is
denying alcohol in the face of a police report. Unless the drinker is
willing to at least accept the proposition that this triggers Plan B
(it would be better for the drinker to acknowledge drinking), I think
you have to face the very real possibility that you are dealing with a
practicing alcoholic. If I were the spouse and the rest of the team,
I would be very worried about continuing CP because of the value that
all participants must be valued and respected and must, in turn
respect other participants. An alcoholic values and respects only
alcohol, so the process is doomed.

Tom

Thomas B. Darnton, J.D.
Windwood Center
330 East Liberty #3C
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
734-622-0406



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        IACP Collaborative Review
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Posted by: "alanfrisher"
      alan.frisher@xxxxxxxxx       <mailto:alan.frisher@xxxxxxxxx?Subject= ;
Re%3AIACP%20Collaborative%20Review>
          alanfrisher
         <http://profiles.yahoo.com/alanfrisher>

Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:30 am (PST)

It was with great pleasure that I recently received the latest
Collaborative Review from the IACP. While many of the articles held my
attention and were certainly worth the read..two in particular stood
out. Quoting from Ron Ousky,"...listen to each other, share ideas,
stay true to our central principal, and make sure that our differences
do not detract us from our primary purpose."; and also quoting from
Chip Rose, "There is a bond that distinguishes our facilitative family
from the adjudicatory families." Forums like this listserv enable
collaborative practitioners to do exactly what these two gentlemen have
stated. Well done, Ron and Chip. I am grateful to be involved and
helping to do my part in the Collaborative effort. May our family
continue to grow and flourish!

Alan Frisher, CDFA



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Re: [CollabLaw] Digest Number 2170

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