[brailleblaster] Re: Contents of Distribution File
- From: Alex Jurgensen <asquared21@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:31:46 -0800
Hi,
Eclpse is a special case. I don't know the resoning behind what Eclipse did.
See my E-mail about where plugins are usually found.
I am not saying that we shouldn't see what and why Eclipse did it that way, but
that I don't think it is the standard on the Mac OS. I cold be wrong.
Regards,
Alex,
On 2010-11-15, at 10:04 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> You describe eclipse as I find it for the Mac. As I had come from Linux/unix
> where you basically unzip the eclipse downloaded file and run from that
> directory I thought on Mac it may require you to have the plugins directories
> and such like in the same directory as the app bundle. Is that right?
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 15 Nov 2010, at 17:59, Chris von See wrote:
>
>> I'm not an XCode user, so I can't speak to why it doesn't contain Java
>> templates. Java is still considered to be a first-class language on Mac OS
>> X, meaning that the OS itself contains support for the language. The app
>> bundle approach that's described is still in widespread use by many (most?)
>> Mac OS X Java developers and is supported by other tools in the Apple
>> Developer's Kit, such as Jar Bundler; I don't think that many developers are
>> using Java Web Start, but according to the Apple Java developer's mailing
>> list some are definitely doing that as well.
>>
>> The "last update" date on the page is 2010-10-20. The "Introduction"
>> section referenced in the sidebar specifically mentions Mac OS X 10.6 Update
>> 3, so the info is pretty recent.
>>
>> The version of Eclipse that I have (Ganymede) includes an app bundle in the
>> directory it installs into /Applications, but the plugins, etc. are outside
>> of the bundle. I don't have definitive knowledge as to why, but one
>> possible explanation is that an application cannot modify its own app bundle
>> at runtime - that would preclude placing dynamically-installed plugins, log
>> files, user-specific preferences etc. in the bundle itself. Other projects
>> will do as other projects do :) and of course BrailleBlaster should do
>> what's best for its particular situation. There *may* be some things that
>> won't be possible if you're not packaged as an app bundle, such as placing
>> the app in the Dock (you can place folders in the Dock but not individual
>> files - at least not in Leopard).
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the link, I just went for a quick search about java applications
>>> on Mac and found that. I have two questions arising from that:
>>> * How old is that document? The current version of xcode does not come with
>>> java templates. The bundling information may still be valid but one needs
>>> to question it when there is out of date information in the document as
>>> well.
>>> * What is the reason for other projects not doing this?
>>>
>>> I actually find another question but not from that document. What is the
>>> importance of creating an application bundle? I would suggest may be giving
>>> it a rating (may be out of 10) but as we haven't rated the importance of
>>> other things that may be a little meaningless on its own. What I really
>>> want to stress is it may be a nice feature but is it absolutely required to
>>> be able to use BrailleBlaster.
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>> On 15 Nov 2010, at 17:02, Chris von See wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Mac OS X application bundle is really no more than a specially-packaged
>>>> directory tree, and it can contain Java class files. There's a file
>>>> called "info.plist" inside the app bundle that identifies the main class
>>>> to be invoked, defines the classpath, gives parameters that should be
>>>> passed to that class and provides options that should be used to start the
>>>> JVM. TAMC, for example, bundles everything it needs to run (including its
>>>> class libraries) inside its app bundle, and stores user preferences
>>>>
>>>> The general structure of a Java app bundle looks like this:
>>>>
>>>> Application (.app)
>>>> - Contents directory
>>>> - - - Info.plist file
>>>> - - - Mac OS directory (contains Mac OS X's Java bootstrapper)
>>>> - - - Pkginfo file
>>>> - - - Resources directory
>>>> - - - - - Application icon file
>>>> - - - - - Java directory
>>>> - - - - - - - (application specific content, including "lib" directory for
>>>> class libraries, core JARs, readme files, parameter files and so on)
>>>>
>>>> More info can be found at
>>>> http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java14Development/03-JavaDeployment/JavaDeployment.html
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this may all change in a few years when Java is no longer
>>>> bundled with Mac OS X, but Apple is already making changes that would
>>>> allow third-party JVMs to be installed in Mac OS X and (I think) even
>>>> allow applications to bundle a JRE as part of the app itself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How does the Apple java application bundles relate to java applications?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I take eclipse as an example, I think it still is a archived bundle
>>>>> with a number of directories and the application bundle, which you
>>>>> extract to a location on disk. So this is similar I think to what is
>>>>> being suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here are the various ways I imagine BrailleBlaster will be started on
>>>>> the various systems:
>>>>> * Windows: There will be a brailleblaster.exe programme or may be a batch
>>>>> script which users should run. This will automatically start the JVM with
>>>>> the options we require.
>>>>> * Linux/Solaris/FreeBSD/other unix system: A shell script will be present
>>>>> which the user runs. Again this will start the JVM with all required
>>>>> options.
>>>>> *MacOSX: In the BrailleBlaster folder, along with the bin, lib, and so on
>>>>> folders there will be a brailleblaster application bundle, users should
>>>>> run this and it will start the JVM with all required options.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless the Java code and liblouis/liblouisutdml libraries can be put
>>>>> inside an application bundle I don't see anything wrong with what was
>>>>> originally suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please correct me if I have things all wrong, I am still fairly new to
>>>>> MacOSX and would appreciate it if those more knowledgable were to help me
>>>>> understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Whapples
>>>>> On 15 Nov 2010, at 15:37, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The standard Mac OS X convention that I would suggest using for the Mac
>>>>>> distribution of Braille Blaster is a *.app bundle inside of a *.dmg disk
>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Alex,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2010-11-15, at 7:24 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We should certainly look at how different platforms handle application
>>>>>>> distribution. I think the zip file might be a good way to start for all
>>>>>>> of them. The starter script for Mac OS X could set up BrailleBlaster as
>>>>>>> a standard Mac applicationj.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 07:23:57AM -0800, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I disagree with this packaging scheme, at least for OS X, because OS X
>>>>>>>> applications have a certain convention that they must follow in order
>>>>>>>> to be run in the standard way. They are also distributed in a few
>>>>>>>> standard ways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest that we look at how the different platforms already handle
>>>>>>>> distributing files.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Alex,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2010-11-15, at 7:12 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here is what I think should be in the BrailleBlaster distribution
>>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>>> They will be zip files and there will be one for each platform.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> COPYING: containing the Apache 2.0 license
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AUTHORS: A list of authors with their e-mail addresses if appropriate
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> README: Instructions on installation, getting started, licensing and
>>>>>>>>> where to get the source code
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> scripts: For starting BrailleBlaster on various platforms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bin directory: C libraries
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> lib directory: jar files of Java libraries used by BrailleBlaster
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> brailleblaster.jar: the piece de resistance
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The bin subdirectory will contain the following subdirectgories
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bin: scripts and command-line tools for liblouis and liblouisutdml
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> lib: The various libraries, such as liblouis, liblouisutdml
>>>>>>>>> libitex2MML
>>>>>>>>> libhunspell etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> share: containing liblouis and liblouisutdml tables and files. This
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> enable them to find their stuff in the paths they expect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
>>>>>>>>> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin USA
>>>>>>>>> Developing software for people with disabilities
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex Jurgensen,
>>>>>>>> VoiceOver Trainer,
>>>>>>>> ASquared21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Visit us on the web at: www.vipbc.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
>>>>>>> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
>>>>>>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin USA
>>>>>>> Developing software for people with disabilities
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex Jurgensen,
>>>>>> VoiceOver Trainer,
>>>>>> ASquared21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit us on the web at: www.vipbc.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Alex Jurgensen,
VoiceOver Trainer,
ASquared21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Visit us on the web at: www.vipbc.org
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