Hi –
Mary wrote:
“Indeed law enforcement is tragically trigger-happy in too many instances
involving African-American young men as we have seen clearly demonstrated in
the last few years.”
I agree, but this is part of a larger problem. IMO, law enforcement tends to
be tragically trigger-happy with whatever
minority/lower-class/alternate-lifestyle individuals they encounter. Many
victims of law enforcement shootings are mentally ill, and some, most
tragically are deaf – they did not obey the officers’ commands.
In part this is because over the years the laws governing police behavior have
been greatly relaxed, such that it is very hard to prove a shooting was
unjustified. Recently in Newport a police shooting was videoed – and it looked
very unnecessary to me. The victim/perp. was not seriously wounded, even
though the officer shot at him 6 times at pretty close range. The LE review
has concluded the shooting was “justified.” It looked to me like the
victim/perp was mentally ill or very much under the influence. He was not
obeying officers’ orders but also did not appear to be much threat to them, at
least from the video perspective.
Wayne
From: boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:boo-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
Mary Garrard
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 10:59 PM
To: BOO List
Subject: [boo] Finicum demise and LE actions vis-a-vis race--medium long
Anybody remember (or read about, if you’re too young to have been alive then?)
the Native American occupation of Alcatraz? They occupied for over a year,
brought attention to Native American issues, energized and engaged the Native
movement for justice. Just want to point out that there was at least one
incident of non-white occupation that resolved without bloodshed. And certainly
LE has been willing to and used lethal violence against armed
European-Americans in standoffs that have involved deaths of both LE and the
stand-off-res—Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.
Indeed law enforcement is tragically trigger-happy in too many instances
involving African-American young men as we have seen clearly demonstrated in
the last few years. That doesn’t translate into blazing guns and dead bodies
everywhere if it had been non-whites that had occupied Malheur.
Here’s an African-American columnist’s perspective on the issue from early in
the Malheur occupation that I found reasonable and compelling:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/01/the_oregon_standoff_with_ammon_bundy_isn_t_evidence_of_a_racial_double_standard.html
Although I was one of many who wanted LE to take action sooner to oust the
Malheur militants, I am glad in retrospect that it resolved as it did. If for
nothing else, the Bundy boys being in custody lured Cliven to fly to Portland
where he was detained under the best and safest conditions: away from
bodyguards and unarmed. That is so satisfying to me. The long arm of justice……
I too will be very interested to see what comes of the investigation into the
FBI shenanigans around the two shots.
Anyway, best wishes to all and happy spring!
Mary
On Mar 11, 2016, at 8:32 PM, David Irons <llsdirons@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Greetings all,
In the absence of a moderator, and I am certainly not volunteering to be one,
it seems to me that the discussion loop here has been reduced to very tight
circles over language and who meant what by their choice of words. There seems
to be a lot more agreement than disagreement, so perhaps it's time to stop
quibbling over questions that none of us can possibly answer. The following
seem to be the points that we all agree on.
1. LaVoy Finicum is dead
2. LaVoy Finicum's death by law enforcement gunfire resulted from a lawful
response to his repeated aggressive and threatening actions.
3. The actions by the OSP officers who fired the fatal shots seem to have
followed standard and expected protocols for situations where officers are
faced with an armed person who is intent on not being taken into custody
willingly, something Finicum repeatedly said he would not allow.
4. Several seconds passed between the time that Finicum got out of his truck
and when he was fatally shot. During this time we know that officers were
instructing him to surrender and yet he chose not to.
5. At least two shots were fired by an FBI agent between the time the vehicle
came to a stop in the snow and the point at which the fatal shots were fired
(about five seconds of elapsed time).
6. Evidence of those shots being fired (spent casings) was collected by FBI
agents. Up to five agents seem to have perjured themselves during the
investigation, by saying that they were unaware of shots being fired by FBI
agents.
7. To date, we have no explanation for why the FBI agents chose to cover-up
these two shots and we may never get a satisfactory explanation.
8. We do not know if Finicum heard these shots being fired. or if his actions
were in some way influenced by them...and we will never know, so why speculate?
9. The investigating team and the U.S. Department of Justice are both taking
the matter of the unreported shots by the FBI agent very seriously. It seems
clear the the DOJ believes that wrongful actions were taken by the FBI and that
they perjured themselves during the investigation. It seems very likely that
the agents will be indicted.
I recommend that we take a bit of a time out and see where the investigation
and DOJ actions go from here. Ultimately, the agents involved are going to
provide a truthful account of their actions. If they haven't already, they will
certainly have a chance to see the video and hear the gun shots in real time
and in the order that they were fired. At this point, any further attempt at
trying to create an alternate account for what we know happened would be more
foolish than the choices they've already made.
The facts of this case are what they are. Speculations about what might have
happened had the occupiers been of color is a rather meaningless exercise. I
think it's a pretty safe bet that no group of non-whites would attempt an armed
takeover of federal property, especially in a rural location with a mostly
white population. White privilege is a real thing, we know that. Further, each
of us has our own individual biases towards law enforcement and how racial
factors play into how enforcement of the law is dispensed in this country. We
aren't going to agree on this, so maybe it's best that we don't get stuck
trying to do so.
Like Paul Adamus, I think that this discussion has been remarkably civil and
articulate, with the differences of opinion being comparatively minor. Had the
primary participants had this same discussion face-to-face sitting around a
conference table, rather than online where nuance and intent don't always come
through clearly, I suspect that there would have been a bit less
contentiousness...not that this discussion has been overly contentious.
Dave Irons
Portland, OR
_____
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:28:47 -0900
Subject: [boo] Re: Follow up. Finicum's demise and law enforcement's actions
(very long)
From: adamus7@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: joel.geier@xxxxxxxx; lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx
CC: boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I really appreciate the civility and articulate analysis on this list by those
who may not always agree. It can take time to formulate and write long
opinions and analysis but I read it all and welcome it.
Paul Adamus
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Joel Geier <joel.geier@xxxxxxxx>
Date: 3/11/2016 9:15 AM (GMT-09:00)
To: Tom McNamara <lesizmore86@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: BOO List <boo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [boo] Re: Follow up. Finicum's demise and law enforcement's actions
(very long)
P.S. If you watch the next few seconds from 5:35 through 5:39 of the
video, you can see that Finicum shows no reaction to the impact of that
projectile. He doesn't turn his head to glance back at the window or the
direction from which this shot was fired, not even for an instant. He
continues running out into the snow in a continuous motion, at this
point clearly raising his hands high as if to surrender.
Then around 5:40, as the two officers are approaching, he starts
reaching into his jacket once, then again.
That's the sequence of actions that resulted in Finicum's death. It is
sad and unfortunate, but there is no way to put the blame on anything or
anyone but Finicum's own erratic actions.
We can argue about whether the apparent firing of a bullet that missed
its target and struck the window at the 5:35 mark was justified or not,
in view of the events that led up to this and Finicum's very rapid exit
from the vehicle. But the suggestion that this off-target projectile
contributed to his actions that led directly to his death seems to be a
red herring.
The FBI misconduct that allegedly took place afterwards (removing shell
casings and either not volunteering information, or outright hiding that
information) is a whole 'nuther matter that should be thoroughly
investigated, with consequences if those accused of such actions are
found to be guilty of misconduct or perjury.
--
Joel Geier
Camp Adair area north of Corvallis
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