Dani:
I must preface this by saying I have never tried to make a pie crust
using vegetable oil over butter or shortening. But I can't imagine how the
result would be the same, after baking, as a pie dough made with more
traditional ingredients. Oil just makes dough behave differently, and how
can you end up with a flaky crust using oil? I just don't get it. I will
have to look at the JOC pat in the pan pie dough recipe and perhaps give it
a go. As far as when to blind bake or not, it's pretty simple. Pie
fillings made with raw eggs, such as most custard-type pies, generally go
into a raw crust and both the crust and filling are baked together. With
custard fillings, the pie is baked for a time at a high temperature to set
the crust, then finished at a lower temperature so as to avoid curdling the
eggs. A custard pie should always be made with a mealy pie dough, meaning
the fat is cut into the dough until it resembles cornmeal. Pie dough made
this way is not as flaky, but resists soaking better than a dough made with
the chunks of fat being larger. Larger clumps of fat in the flour make a
flakier crust, but one that soaks easily. Often, a mealy crust is used for
the bottom, and a flaky crust used for the top. In general, if the filling
is cooked before being put in the shell, then the crust is baked empty,
usually under weights, or between two pie plates turned up side down. Then
the filling is added. In the case of your apple pie where the filling is
made and cooked before being placed in the crust, the pie is cooked further
so as to finish cooking the apples, thicken the juices further, and cook the
crust. Since so much of the moisture is removed when the apples are cooked
on the stovetop, there is less risk of the bottom crust becoming soggy.
When in doubt as to blind baking a crust or not, follow the instructions in
the recipe, or you can ask here.
or prepared
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dani Pagador" <axs.brl@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 11:05 PM
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Apple Pie Snafu
Hi, Jon.
Here's the KAF recipe.
<snip>
King Arthur Flour
No-Roll Pie Crust
At a Glance
Prep7 mins. to 15 mins.BakeTotal7 mins. to 15 mins.Yieldsingle 9" crust
Many folks swear by the convenience and quality of a no-roll pie crust
made with vegetable oil. This crisp, tasty crust is also a plus for
those watching their diet, since it has neither trans fats nor
cholesterol; it's also vegan. Plus, if you're intimidated by a rolling
pin, this is the crust for you. This recipe makes enough for a single
crust; to make a two-crust pie, see "baker's tips," below.
This recipe was formerly called Oil Pie Crust. We've increased the
size just a bit, to make it easier to fill a full-size 9" pie pan.
2 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
heaping 1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon sugar
3/8 teaspoon baking powder
7 tablespoons (1/2 cup less 1 tablespoon) oil: canola, vegetable,
olive, peanut, your choice
1/4 cup cold water
Directions
1. Whisk together the flour, salt, sugar and baking powder.
2. Whisk together the oil and water, then pour over the dry ingredients.
3. Stir with a fork until the dough is evenly moistened.
4. Pat the dough across the bottom of the pie pan and up the sides. A
flat-bottomed measuring cup or glass helps smooth the bottom.
5. Crimp the edge, or flatten with the tines of a fork.
6. Fill the crust as desired, and bake.
7. Yield: one 9" no-roll pie crust.
Tips from our bakers
•This recipe makes enough for a single crust; to make a two-crust pie,
increase the recipe ingredients as follows: 3 cups flour, 1 teaspoon
salt, 1 1/2 teaspoons sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking powder, 2/3 cup
vegetable oil, 6 tablespoons water. Press 2/3 of the resulting dough
into the pie pan, then add 1 teaspoon cinnamon and 2 tablespoons sugar
to the remainder. After you fill the bottom crust, break the topping
into small pieces, and spread them evenly over the filling. The
topping will crisp up into something between streusel, and a typical
top crust.
•Want to make the crust with melted butter, instead of oil? Go right
ahead; it'll have lovely buttery flavor. The crust will no longer be
vegan, but if it's OK with you, it's certainly fine with us. <end>
I cooked the apples according to the directions in JOC, page 678, and
used the recipe that went with those directions. I used the dough from
the top crust to make a crumb topping, as suggested in KAF's recipe.
What are the guidelines for blind baking? When should you do it vs. not?
Thanks,
Dani
On 4/24/17, Jonathan Rawlings <twosocks76@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
First of all, Dani, whether you use a pie crust that you pat out to fit the
pan or roll it out and then lay it into the pie plate, shouldn't determine
whether it is blind baked before the filling is added. I do not think that
was the reason the crust was soggy. I am somewhat unclear...was both your
top and bottom crust soggy, or just the top? I agree with Cindy that your
baking temperature seems a bit low. I would have to look at the exact
recipe for the crust you made, but I don't see how something sprinkled on
top of the filling can be called a crust...a crumble or streusel maybe, but
not a crust. Cindy, I am not a fan of apple pies made with raw apples prior
to baking for a number of reasons. First, raw apples give off a great deal
of liquid during baking, no matter the baking temperature. The liquid often
overflows the pie dish, and because the fruit must be mounded high in the
pie shell, then shrinks as it bakes, the top crust becomes mis-shapen, and
both the top and bottom crust come out soggy. Pre-cooking the apples ahead
of time drives off much of the moisture in the apples and concentrates the
flavor so it is much more intense. And Dani, you definitely want that syrup
left when you cook the apples ahead. My suggestion is to bake the pie at
400 degrees for the entire baking time, perhaps reducing the time to 35 to
40 minutes.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dani Pagador" <axs.brl@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Apple Pie Snafu
Here is info re blind baking.
http://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-blind-bake-a-pie-crust-cooking-lessons-from-the-kitchn-197553
On 4/24/17, Cindy Ray <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
That is called blind baking? Hmmm! As for fruit pies, I have never done
that
with one of those, and I don't really see why a crust that you pat into
the
pan is different. Your temperature sounded awfully low.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dani Pagador
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 5:10 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Apple Pie Snafu
It's when you prebake a crust, either partially or completely, before
using.
I've seen it done with pizza crusts.
On 4/24/17, Cindy Ray <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
What is blind baking?
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dani Pagador
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 4:47 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Apple Pie Snafu
I know where I snafued. I was reading through the pie crust section in
Joy again, and saw a statement about always prebaking pat-in-pan
crusts. The no-roll crust is pat-in-pan, so neded to be prebaked.
I'm not sure about all the other types of crusts, though. I also don't
know when blind baking should be done, aside from the custard
fillings, ready-to-eat fillings, and pat-in-pan situations.
More Later,
Dani
On 4/24/17, Cindy Ray <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If you cook them inside the shell and cook it at a higher
temperature, you will get tender apples and maybe a less soggy crust.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dani Pagador
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 10:57 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blindcooks] Re: Apple Pie Snafu
Hi, Cindy.
When I don't cook the apples, they come out a lot firmer, not as fork
tender.
I like the apples to be more on the tender side, and find that I can
get this by cooking them before they go into the pie. I use the
method on page
678 of Joy Of Cooking, 75th Edition. It's downloadable as a .brf file
from BARD.
I like the way the apples taste, coated with the butter, sugar, and
spices.
One of the benefits to baking the pie yourself is being able to nick
some of the filling. Sooo yummy!!!
More Later,
Dani
On 4/23/17, Cindy Ray <cindyray@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
How come you cooked the apples first? Was that just the recipe for
the specific pie?
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcooks-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dani Pagador
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 10:03 PM
To: blindcooks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blindcooks] Apple Pie Snafu
Hi, Everyone.
I had an apple pie snafu this weekend.
I used King Arthur's No-Roll Pie Crust recipe, making a bottom and
top crust. I precooked my apples, and crumbled the top crust over
the filled pie. I baked at 350 for 45 minutes, and let the pie cool.
It's edible, but not as satisfying as I'd hoped it would be. The
outside of the crust is brown and flaky, but the inside is soggy.
I know that when I make things like pudding-filled pie, I need to
blind bake the crust.
Is this true for other kinds of pies, like custard and apple?
And when I remove the apples from the pot after cooking, should I
keep the syrup and bake it with the pie, or toss the syrup?
I didn't realize how much I liked pie until I started making my own
crusts and trying my hand at baking the pies myself. How do I avoid
another snafu like this one?
Thanks,
Dani