My mind doesn't work the way your's does and therefore, I won't debate with you
on this. I understand that you believe that Marxist theory is scientific. But
it's self contained. If you look at history, it seems to me that evidence
doesn't support the theory. But as a self contained theory, it's logical and
makes sense.
I function according to a set of values which I've set out many times so you
know that I despise Fascism. I also despise authoritarian governments of any
other kind, as well as war as a solution to human problems. I want all human
beings to live in peace and cooperation with each other. I want each individual
to have physical and emotional security, to be respected, to receive help from
his or her community whenever that is necessary. I think that people do best
when they have control over their lives. I like the idea of cooperatives as an
organizing mechanism for getting things done.
By the time the day ended yesterday, I realized that my rage at what the
Democratic Party had done, was almost out of control. It was also clear to me
from somethings my older daughter said, as well as what Frank said on this
list, that good, well meaning, intelligent people have been completely
brainwashed by the establishment and that is why I become upset when anyone
attempts to propagandize people and use them in order to attain goals,
regardless of the goals. People shouldn't be used as pawns. But they are, and
they are highly manipulatable, and if you point this out to them, they will
feel insulted. They feel that you are insulting their intelligence so it's an
unwinnable battle.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:38 PM
To: miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] RE:
Re: Fight for gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave health care!
But that is not what Marxism is. Marxism holds that there are certain goals
that are worth achieving. Okay, there are other people who do not think those
goals are worth achieving. I hope you can identify the people who do not think
the goals of Marxism are worth achieving or should not be achieved. If you do
identify them then you should think you are looking at some rather unsavory
characters. If you don't think they are unsavory then I suppose you must be one
of them, but given that you have denounced fascists, even if you do not have a
clear idea of what a fascist is, or other right-wingers I would expect that
you would consider them to be rather unsavory. Identifying those goals does not
make one a Marxist, however. What makes one a Marxist is adopting a certain
methodology to achieve those goals, a scientific methodology.
The scientific methodology is to assess the world the way it actually is,
whether you like that assessment or not. You cannot claim that the world is
another way than it actually is just because you would prefer it to be another
way. The assessment has to be objective and objective assessments leave no room
for faith of any kind. Once the assessment has been made one then looks at the
world as it used to be and at how it has changed in the past and then develops
theories about how to bring about further change in the direction that is
desired. Then the theories have to be applied and when they are the outcome is
rarely exactly what you wanted it to be. Then the next step is to assess the
new situation while analyzing what mistakes were made and developing new
theories to apply the next time. Actually, next time is not the exact wording
that actually applies because history does not stand still. It moves on no
matter what and so the assessments and theorizing and the applications of the
theory must be always an ongoing process. This is scientific method. Even the
enemies of Marxism can use scientific method to further their own goals. But
scientific method is not compatible with faith.
Once you base your actions on faith you have given up Marxism. If you believe
that Marx could never have been wrong about anything you have given up Marxism.
Religious faith is specifically a faith in superstitious ideology and it is
anathema to Marxism, but any kind of faith, religious or other wise, is too.
Now, I think I have met some people who have something like faith in something
similar to Marxism and they actually call themselves Marxists, but they have
lost their way as Marxists. The Spartacist League might be an example. They
have been described as Trotskyist fundamentalists. Within the last couple of
months I posted an article from their newspaper here. It was on the subject of
China and what was going on in Hongkong. Their analysis of China seemed to be
more of an analysis of China in the 1950s. They somehow could not see that the
world had changed and so they were not making an objective assessment of the
world as it really is now. That might be some kind of faith, a nonreligious
faith. But faith cannot be Marxist. Once you have faith you are no longer a
Marxist.
___
Neil deGrasse Tyson
“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.”
― Neil DeGrasse Tyson
On 3/5/2020 8:49 PM, miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I know that you see Marxism as an objective theory. It certainly is a theory.
It's one way of looking at history and economics. If you see everything
through that lens and that is the only interpretation you accept, and if you
think that people who do not see things in the same way that you see things
are misguided and need to be corrected, then you are thinking and behaving
very much like someone who believes that his religion is the only way in
which human behavior should be seen and that people who do not believe as he
does, are misguided and should be corrected. Yes, Marxist theory is very
different from religious theory, but the way in which people utilize the two,
is very similar.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:36 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] RE: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy]
RE: Re: Fight for gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave health care!
Miriam, one cannot have religious faith in Marxist theory. That is like
saying that if someone gouges your eye out you only think your eye was gouged
out because you have religious faith that it was. Marxism is an objective
assessment of the world with the intention of using that assessment to change
the world in specific ways. If one has religious faith in something it is not
and cannot be Marxism. Faith is anathema to Marxism.
___
Neil deGrasse Tyson
“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.”
― Neil DeGrasse Tyson
On 3/5/2020 4:29 PM, miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I was asking Carl. I would not have asked you that question because I know
that you have, what amounts to religious faith, in Marxist theory. What I
mean is, it is the lens through which you view human behavior, in the same
way that a believer in religion, sees human behavior through the lens of
that religion.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] RE: Re: Fight for
gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave health care!
Miriam, you are asking me why I think something that I don't think.
Again, the class struggle sharpens periodically as class contradictions
build up. When those contradictions sharpen to the point that a
revolutionary situation develops the revolutionary party, that has been
organizing and waiting for just that event, takes the role of a steering
party. That is, a revolutionary party acts to minimize the inevitable
destruction and to guide the revolution as closely as possible toward an
outcome that will advantage the oppressed classes. I have explained that
over and over. I don't see why you keep ascribing opinions to me that I have
explicitly refuted so many times.
___
Neil deGrasse Tyson
“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.”
― Neil DeGrasse Tyson
On 3/5/2020 12:59 PM, miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
So, given the fact that so many of the folks who voted on Super Tuesday
were so easily manipulated into voting for a brain damaged dishonest racist
candidate as a possible opponent to Donald Trump, what makes you think that
a tiny fringe socialist party could possibly organize millions and millions
of people into a revolution against the system?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:57 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Fight for gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave
health care!
The article states: "The Socialist Workers Party campaign is grounded in
the conviction that it is possible to emulate that example(the Cuban
Revolution). We can mobilize in our millions to overthrow the dictatorship
of the capitalist class here, take power into our own hands and open the
door to working people running society."
And then the article concludes, "Join us in campaigning for Alyson Kennedy
and Malcolm Jarrett, the working-class alternative in 2020!"
My problem with this article is that we can't take both approaches.
Either we advocate for Revolution and the replacement of our current Ruling
Class with a government which represents All the People, or we send Alyson
Kennedy and Malcolm Jarrett to be our sacrificial offerings. That approach
appears hopeless. Let's suppose, and it is a real long shot, that Alyson
Kennedy and Malcolm Jarrett squeak out a victory, and find themselves in
the White House. Then what? I mean what do we Revolutionaries do? We
have just won the top two offices in the nation, and the most influential
top dogs in all the World.
Are they prepared to lead a Revolution from within the Establishment's
System? Do they attempt to swim upstream and make what social changes they
can make? To me it is a lose lose situation. The fact is that we live in,
and have lived in from the beginning, in a Class System.
This nation of the people never set out to be the government of All the
People.
Although I have no dog in this presidential fight, I plan to vote for
Bernie Sanders. Not because I think that he will win, or even if the
Heavens opened up and God smote all his opponents and Bernie, like David
with his sling, did win, but because I believe it is my only way of
spitting in the Establishment's eye. Bernie will be as unable to return
America to the New Deal Days, as would Alyson Kennedy and Malcolm Jarrett.
But on the other hand, if we are truly serious about a People's Revolution,
then we need to stop pretending that we can "make a difference" through
tucking a few Progressives into the System. It's like tossing red meat to
a pack of wild dogs.
As a defender of the American People and their Rights and Dignity, I am
faced with deciding whose laws I must obey. Do I take the safer path and
obey the laws that have been bought and paid for to protect the properties
and positions of the long established Ruling Class? Or do I obey those
basic laws that defend the dignity and security and health, and all the
Rights that belong to First Class Citizens?
This is no easy decision. But it is one that every Citizen must make,
because we cannot serve two Masters. Either we support the right of a few
to own us, or we defend the Right to Human Dignity by All the People. This
constitution we live under was created back when we were a collection of 13
Colonies and an Agrarian Society. The Document was truly revolutionary in
its day. It declared that the Colonists were no longer the economic slaves
of the King of England. In the situation the Colonists found themselves,
there was no misunderstanding over whether they could somehow take over the
government and make changes to existing laws. There was only one of two
roads, compliance or revolution.
The ensuing struggle was costly for many Landholders. Many chose to duck
and cover, hoping the King would reward them once the uprising was quashed.
While Times are very different today, we live in an Urban Society and
number 50 states and over 300 million People, we are still faced by the
same two roads. We can duck and cover and accept what is "given"
us by our Ruling Class, hoping they make wise choices that somehow include
us, or we can set them aside, thanking them for their long years at the
helm of our Ship of State, but recognizing that they have outlived their
day, and that they have become far too self serving.
But if we do the latter, we must realize that once declared, the New
Revolution must follow. Are we ready for it?
Carl Jarvis
On 3/5/20, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
https://themilitant.com/2020/02/29/fight-for-govt-funded-cradle-to-
g r a ve-health-care/ Fight for gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave
health care!
article
Vol. 84/No. 9
March 9, 2020
The U.S. government, the most powerful imperialist power on the
planet, like every other capitalist power around the world, is far
from prepared for the spread of coronavirus. The virus is new, no
one is immune, and it will take time to develop an antidote.
The rulers in China and Iran tried to pretend things weren’t so bad
and working people are paying for it. The administration in
Washington tells us they’ve got everything in hand and complain the
media is trying to make coronavirus “look as bad as possible.”
The deadly impact of the virus will fall overwhelmingly on working
people in the U.S., as it does elsewhere, exacerbating the broader
social, economic and moral crisis of capitalism bearing down on us.
Millions of workers already confront the declining availability of
health care. Hospitals have been closing in rural areas and
working-class neighborhoods, where the owners decide they aren’t
making enough profit. The system of health insurance in the U.S. —
whether it’s “Obamacare,” private health insurance or the
Medicare-for-all insurance schemes promoted by a wing of the
Democrats — is designed to guarantee a profit for hospital bosses
and drug and insurance companies, not to provide the health care
working people need and deserve.
If we can’t afford to pay the rising costs they charge for
premiums, deductibles or copays, we have to go without something
that should be a basic human right.
The capitalist rulers consider the provision of health care to
workers a nonproductive expense. Hospital bosses are notorious for
transporting homeless people seeking care out of the city and
dumping them. The capitalist rulers seek to impose the
responsibility for medical care onto individual workers and our
families. And if you don’t change your lifestyle — quit smoking,
lose weight, etc. — they want to make you pay more. You’re on your own.
Health care is social right
Health care is a social question. The working class and our unions
need to fight for government-funded cradle-to-grave health care for
all. Our labor produces all the wealth, more than enough to provide
care for all, for a lifetime. The problem is the employers
expropriate that wealth for themselves. So they don’t have to worry
about the costs of getting treatment.
Health care as a social right can only be won by class struggle,
including breaking from all the capitalists’ parties, which insist
that the health insurance racket is untouchable. It will take
massive struggles by workers and our allies to take the hospitals
and drug companies out of the hands of the capitalists who run them
for profit and organize to run them under workers control in the interest
of all.
But it can be done.
Revolutionary Cuba is the one country in the world where health
care is not a commodity, where the surplus workers and farmers
produce is used to provide lifelong, preventative health care for every
person.
And where thousands of volunteer medical workers provide much
needed care throughout the world, treating all they look after with
dignity and respect. A vivid account is provided in the recently
published Red
Zone: Cuba and the Battle Against Ebola in West Africa.
The volunteers’ internationalism, author Enrique Ubieta
writes, “is an expression of their revolutionary humanism.”
As Che Guevara said, to be a revolutionary doctor you have to make
a revolution.
Revolution transformed working people in Cuba This is only possible
because Cuban workers and farmers made a revolution and the
government today is in their hands. Making that revolution
transformed working people. They simply look at the problems they confront
— from the U.S.
rulers’ economic war against them to the threat of coronavirus — as
the responsibility of the whole people.
Whatever they face — a hurricane, a threat of disease, or anything
else — they prepare, mobilize the whole people and resources of
their government, and take it on.
The Socialist Workers Party campaign is grounded in the conviction
that it is possible to emulate that example. We can mobilize in our
millions to overthrow the dictatorship of the capitalist class
here, take power into our own hands and open the door to working
people running society. Join us in campaigning for Alyson Kennedy
and Malcolm Jarrett, the working-class alternative in 2020!
article end
list of 4 items
Audio version
Share
list end
RELATED ARTICLES
article
Capitalist economies wobble as coronavirus cases spread Media
worldwide headlined the news Feb. 24 with reports that coronavirus
infections and deaths were spreading outside China, where it
originated, with spikes in South Korea, Japan, Iran and northern
Italy. Capitalist governments around the world either admit their
health… article end IN THIS ISSUE Front Page Articles list of 6
items • ‘We need a labor party, independent of the bosses’
• Capitalist two party system’s stability won’t be restored • New
Zealand protesters say ‘Abortion is not a crime’
• Striking Asarco miners protest bosses’ union-busting attacks •
Federal court says Florida law gutting felons’ right to vote is
unconstitutional • Over a million Syrians forced to flee Idlib in
face of regime’s offensive list end Feature Articles list of 1
items • New book on Ebola launched at Cuban tropical medicine
school list end Also In This Issue list of 8 items • Kennedy: ‘All
workers should back Asarco strike’
• Back Socialist Workers Party 2020 campaign Contribute to $25,000 fund!
• Families, former inmates, SWP protest conditions at Georgia jail
• Capitalist economies wobble as coronavirus cases spread • Women
in Iraq say no to segregation of protesters • ‘Communism is not a
doctrine but a movement’
• Bosses step up spying on workers — on and off the job • Join 2020
May Day international brigade to Cuba!
list end
Editorials
list of 1 items
• Fight for gov’t-funded, cradle-to-grave health care!
list end
Books of the Month
list of 1 items
• ‘Second-class status of women arose with class society’
list end
25, 50 and 75 years ago
Letters
Corrections
main region end
© Copyright 2020 The Militant - 306 W. 37th Street, 13th floor -
New York, NY 10018 - themilitant@xxxxxxx Cookies This site uses
cookies to improve your experience.
Learn more.
Okay, thanks
--
___
Neil deGrasse Tyson
“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.”
― Neil DeGrasse Tyson
