[blind-democracy] Re: R2-D2 dies

  • From: "Roger Loran Bailey" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
  • To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 22:32:09 -0400

I think Star Wars might be most accurately described as science fantasy. It is the force that mostly makes it fantasy. I have not followed all the sequels and fictional history of the empire that has grown out of the original movie, but I understand that at some point the force is explained in a way that brings it back to something more like science fiction.

Let's look at what science fiction is and how it differs from fantasy. It is often said that fantasy has been around a lot longer than science fiction by thousands of years and I have been known to say that myself, but as genres of fiction it just might be that science fiction is the older one. The concept of genre started in the late nineteenth century with the pulp magazines. It was a way to categorize magazines to maximize the readership. That is, if some people did not like the kinds of stories published in one magazine then the publisher would start another one that they would like and to give the readers direction in which magazine to choose the genre categories got started. Science fiction was a very late comer to genre fiction. Sure, you have heard Jules Verne and H.G. Wells described as science fiction writers and the Verne books were actually described as scientific romances when they were published, but such descriptions were just that, descriptive rather than categorical. The genre of science fiction was started by Hugo Gernsback in about 1929. He was what today might be called a geek. Widespread availability of electricity was still rather new and inventions of electronic gadgets were coming at a fast pace and Gernsback was fascinated by them. As a gimmick to encourage other people to get into electronics he started a publishing venture that would publish stories about electronic invention and he combined the words science and fiction and called it scientifiction. And, just as he intended, early science fiction was very heavily gadget oriented. The genre got out of his control, though, and became in pretty short order what we recognize as science fiction today even if the writing and plotting was a lot more primitive then than it is now. We should remember that the writers were more the technical kind of people rather than the literary kind of people back then. Here is what it became and here is how it is related to fantasy. Both science fiction and fantasy are speculative fiction. By that I mean that they start out with the presumed question of what if. Ask the question what if and then following the word if will be a fantastic supposition. By fantastic supposition I mean a situation that no person in history has ever really experienced. Then the answer, or at least one answer, to the question is the story itself. With that in mind we should remember that the word science in science fiction is not there for nothing. Science is the study of reality. That means that in a science fiction story the fantastic supposition is assumed within the context of the story to be a manifestation of reality. It does not matter if the fantastic supposition is impossible or not, just that within the context of the story it is assumed to be a manifestation of reality. On the other hand, in a fantasy story the fantastic supposition is assumed to be a manifestation of the supernatural. That is a profound difference. It is the difference between astronomy and astrology. It is the difference between chemistry and alchemy. With that in mind it should be pretty easy to see why it is thought so often that fantasy predates science fiction, but I think it is more accurate to say that all of that pre-genre fantasy can only be categorized as fantasy retrospectively just like the writings of Jules Verne is only categorized as science fiction retrospectively. If we are going to welcome retrospective categorization into genre categories, though, then most certainly fantasy does predate science fiction by thousands of years.

Now to relate this to Star Wars, most of the fantastic suppositions in Star wars are assumed to be manifestations of reality and so in that sense it counts as science fiction. The reason I was more prone to call it science fantasy was because a prominent trophe in the story was the force which seems to be assumed to be something supernatural. As I understand it, though, in some sequel the force was finally explained in some way such that it could then be assumed to be a manifestation of reality. I don't know how that was done, but if it was then that allows Star Wars to become science fiction rather than science fantasy. With that all said, though, I don't want to leave the impression that I think Star Wars is good science fiction. As a matter of fact, it is awful science fiction. That is, it is awful science fiction except for the special effects and the visual quality of the movies. That part is downright mind blowing. But have you ever tried to read a Star Wars novel. There are quite a few on BARD if you want to try it out. Well, they are written by various authors and so the writing quality varies, but they all still have to adhere to the history and parameters of the Star Wars universe that was laid down in the original movie and subsequent sequels and novels. The novels, of course come without special effects. They are all awful. It's just that some are more awful than others. Star Wars is about the least thought provoking science fiction series that you can find and science fiction is by its nature supposed to be very thought provoking. For the most part science fiction is thought provoking, but Star Wars fails in that mission. Star Wars novels just come across as silly to me.


On 8/15/2016 9:35 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:

Absolutely right, Roger.  Ruins the verisimilitude.
And worse than that it messes up all credibility.
My dad used to gnash his teeth when he read what was passed off as
Science Fiction.  "Fiction, all right," he would growl, "But where's
the science?"
Dad always bought Galaxy Science Fiction and for a long time he also
bought Amazing Stories.  But Amazing went too far toward fantasy.
For some years I subscribed to Isaac Asimov's magazine, until they
stopped publishing the Braille edition.
  But Star Wars had never worried about Science.  It was purely a
flight into fantasy.  Children zoomed about the school yards making
rocket sounds, where we had once made gun sound...I can still do the,
"tush tush tush".
"You're dead, Roger.  I got you in the eye!"
Carl Jarvis


On 8/15/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Human race in a future of such turmoil? Actually, it starts out placing
the setting by saying a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Then you
see all of those humans running around. That kind of strains the
verisimilitude right there.


On 8/14/2016 11:55 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Roger,
I hope my sarcasm did not leave the impression that I really enjoyed
the Star Wars film.  What I enjoyed was the wide-eyed excitement my
two youngsters poured forth, watching those special effects.  All I
wound up with, besides the unforgettable excitement of my children,
was a low grade headache.  Buck Rogers is exactly the level of the
dialog and plot, but as I said, it was the thought that anyone would
put the Human Race in a future of such turmoil.  And Princesses?
Please!

Carl Jarvis


On 8/14/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Actually, I have a hard time understanding how a blind person could
appreciate Star Wars. The writing was poor. The dialog was stilted. It
was on the level of a Buck Rogers comic strip. I am very glad that I saw
it before losing my eyesight though. The special effects were absolutely
fantastic. Visually it had to have been the most spectacular movie I
have ever seen. And no amount of description can possibly convey that
visual experience.


On 8/14/2016 11:09 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Kenny Baker, who played the beloved droid R2-D2 in the "Star Wars"
films, died Saturday after battling a long illness,
according to reports.
    He was 81.

This news caused me to think back to the afternoon I took my two
youngest children to see Star Wars.  Cathy was ill, so I figured she
could use a little peace and quiet.  We walked down the hill to the
Roxy Theatre in the heart of Renton.  I realized I was in for a real
thrill when the curtain rose and the surround sound came up with
amazing volume, causing my ear drums to tingle.  The kids were
thrilled.  An evening with Dad...actually it was the hot buttered
popcorn, the ice-cream bonbons and the several trips to the rest
rooms.
I remember thinking at the time that what I was being subjected to was
a Grade B Western set in the future.  But I basked in the thrill and
excitement of my youngsters.
It wasn't until long years later that I understood what was really
bothering me about Star Wars and it's several subsequent clones.  It
was this portrayal of a future that was even more messed up than the
world I was now living in.  At one level Star Wars was just good fun.
But at another level it was a warning of what we might expect if we
continued down our present road, and survived.  We could expect to
find dictators, royalty, good guys in white, and evil guys in black.
Nothing had improved, except the tools with which we wiped one another
out.
Well R2-D2, may you rest in peace, and may we never see that wild
imaginary universe in which you lived.

Carl Jarvis






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