What made Joe so angry, was what Mustafa wrote about Israel. Joe thought that
Mustafa is anti-semitic, and being Joe, he exploded. Mustafa is anti Zionist
and, like so many other people, he can't separate Israel from Jewish people.
That's true of many Jewish people, as well as others, both Muslim and
Christian. It's actually related to Zionist propaganda. I remember having a
long telephone conversation with Joe on the subject of Israel. Although he no
longer followed the Catholic faith into which he was born, he did believe that
the Jews had a historic right to Palestine because of what he'd read in the
bible. As for what happened between Roger and Mustafa, that was a matter of
neither of them just leaving the subject of religion alone. Mustafa felt
disrespected, and Roger felt victimized by Mustafa's missionary spirit. And
all of this has to do with testosterone. Never do you see women getting into
the same kinds of battles on email lists. On all of the lists, it's invariably
men.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 11:50 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
My first impression of Mostafa's posts was that we might have a small window
into opinions and thinking outside our normal scope.
But Joe went ballistic. Rather than allowing Mostafa to express his ideas, and
possibly ingest some of our thinking, he cursed him as akin to the Devil. Even
so, when Mostafa returned to posting on this list, he seemed willing to have
conversations on other than Muslim Faith.
But he got into a pissing match with Roger, and Mostafa could not let it
alone...nor could Roger. While I find Roger's participation of great value,
Mostafa felt personally chastised. And, to his own detriment he resorted to
childish behavior, rather than accepting that he and Roger would never agree on
subjects related to religion.
I continue to believe that this and similar lists offer us a place where we can
better learn to exchange opinions without feeling put down or dismissed. To my
thinking, our very existence on Earth hangs upon our ability to coexist as
separate parts of the whole.
Carl Jarvis, the weaver of dreams and the gatherer of wool.
On 8/18/19, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Miriam, yes I too had the same experience as you did. Although I
certainly disagreed with Mostafa, mostly about religion; our exchanges
were always civil. Honestly, I think all of his posts were mostly
civil and interesting to read, until Joe went after him and that
seemed to start some sort of Islamophobic war that others were caught
up in. Starting a war with persons of color, and then leaving it for
his disciples to fight was always one of Joe's hallmarks. Do you
remember when he attacked me and then tried to leave it to Alice to
fight his racist war? Getting back to Mostafa, I think there is a
double whammy in regards to the fact that he is trying to communicate
in textbook English which sometimes alienates those of us who communicate in
the vernacular.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 10:22 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
Actually, Mustafa didn't argue with me about religion because I never
chose to debate him on the question. At least, I don't remember doing
so. But I did talk to him about Jews, explaining that not all American
Jews are Zionists, and I did talk to him about how he functioned on
the list. His responses to me, personally, were not particularly
hostile. Sometimes, they were even friendly.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of abby
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:07 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
Yes, that's the Dude. I assume Mustafa would find that position as
offensive as yours or miriam's,but maybe not. ... or ... he didn't
have my email. Anyway I'm glad I don't have to deal with his rants anymore.
Abby
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 5:34 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
Abby,
If you believe in the God who cares for all life, who promotes
brotherly(Sisterly) love, respects all people and all creatures, and
promotes compassion and Love, then you have the right God. It doesn't
matter who Mostafa believes in, or for that matter what Carl Jarvis
believes in. Just so long as it works for you.
Carl Jarvis, still looking in the looking glass waiting for the face
to appear.
On 8/17/19, abby <aevincent@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There really is a god,the one that keeps Mustafa from haranguing me
because I believe in the wrong One.
Abby
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl ;
Jarvis
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:17 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
Yesterday, Friday, August 16, 2019, our new contract showing it began
on July 1, 2019, arrived via email. It was only a mere 46 days late.
Just a simple message: "Please review, sign and return as quickly as
possible." In my life as a blind man, 1965-2019, I have seen
services for the blind go full circle from careless and indifference
to indifference and careless. And saddest of all is the lack of
outrage by the Service Providers.
Back in 1965 I was 30 years old, and full of energy. But at 84 I am
not so fast to head out the door waving my flag and shouting my Cause.
I'll continue protesting from my office computer, but that only
brings replies from other old timers.
When I stepped out of leadership roles in the WCB, I said it was up
to the next generation to determine their fate. So be it with the
quality of services now being delivered...or not being delivered.
Carl Jarvis, just sitting around bitching and enjoying life.
On 8/17/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
A lot of humidity here too, like 89%. Very uncomfortable. But it
hasn't been hot for the past several days. You're lucky to be
capable of walking, something I can barely do. Also, you have
someplace beautiful to walk. One of the things I'm grateful for is
that I traveled to so many interesting places while I still had some
useable vision and could walk. By the way, did the state ever send
you your contract for this coming year?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 11:07 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Mustafa
Back in the 1960's, when I embraced Full Gospel Religion...or
whatever "Born Again" folks called themselves, the approach toward
'"spreading the Good News", was aggressive, unrelenting and
repetitious. It was embarrassing to me, and eventually it was a
piece of what drove me away from religion. I see that I also have
another message from Mostafa this morning. He is on a religious
mission, and there is nothing we can say that will prove to him that
his overbearing approach will turn more people away, than it will
"enlighten" them.
But his emails are easily handled, and are not nearly as irritating
as the Sex Spam I must delete every morning.
Of course I never open any of these pesky notes, and from time to
time I do look at Mostafa's ramblings. And I usually wind up asking
myself, "Self, why do you read this man's babble? He is incapable
of carrying on a conversation."
We've had interesting weather in August. From the mid eighties, it
has turned cool with morning fog that lasts well into the late
afternoon and the highs are around 70. A little rain, but not even
much of that. Still, even with 80% humidity, or higher, our weather
sure beats the high heat in other parts of the nation. Perfect
weather for a nice, slow morning walk.
Carl Jarvis, putting on my walking shoes.
On 8/17/19, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I've been receiving messages from Mustafa ever since he was banned
from the list. Interestingly, it's impossible to block the messages
or rather, I do block them, but he uses different email addresses
so he's, apparently, unblockable. Not to worry, I just delete them,
but it's weird. He must have been trained by a computer expert!
Miriam
