Thank you, Rui. I enjoyed the trip, and it cooled me
off just reading about it. now I'll have to see if
Jeremiah Johnson is showing on tv tonight.
And I just read an article about Barrow, Alaska. I
gather it's even farther north than you went. I did
not know that it was a listening/watching post during
The War ( when you're my age there is only one
war--I'm too young for WWI).
Have you read Into the Wild, by John Krakauer? It's
not on bookshare, although Into Thin Air and Under the
Banner of Heaven are. Into the WIld was Krakauer's
first book, I think. It is a real story, like Into
Thin Air, about a young man who wanted to go camp in
the Alaskan Wilderness and, after hitchhiking and
traveling across the country eventually got there.
Unfortunately, like many young people, he thought he
knew everything and didn't listen to people who knew
more. I found it a fascinating can't-put-down book
(unlike, in my opinion, Under the banner of Heaven)
and IMO it should be on bookshare. If someone scans it
and no one else wants to validate it, I'd be happy to,
but any of you who like to read true adventure stories
or camping stories I think will like it.
Cindy
-- Rui <goldWave@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Good morning:
I have brought out the dead horse so we can finish
beating on it.
Later on today I will have a fat lady singing on my
website.
As i'm sticking a fork in the stripper discussion, I
hope that bookshare has
taken notice (and i believe they have)
p.s. speaking of deadhorse.
Deadhorse, Alaska, 99734. It's hard to imagine when
you arrive in Deadhorse
in the winter, but a few dozen people actually live
in this town that lies
on the Arctic
Ocean, at the terminus of the remote gravel track
euphemistically called the
Dalton Highway. The rest -- thousands at a time --
work two weeks on and two
weeks off supporting the oil field developments
known as Prudhoe Bay.
The Coldfoot complex, the northernmost truck stop in
the United States, has
facilities for truckers and tourists alike, with a
homey restaurant, post
office,
a small gift shop that sells gold-nugget jewelry,
and general store called
"7-Eleven Below". Arctic Acres Inn provides basic
lodging, with three small
motels that have a total of 200 beds along with an
RV park with hookups,
picnic tables, a dump station, shower and a laundry
facility. (This is a
great
summer description-in the winter, it's a
snow-encrusted camp with icicles
that look like they wouldn't melt until August.)
While there, we downed some
homey food, filled our fuel tanks with gas, and came
to a consensus that
"Cold foot" was aptly named, but because of our
amply-heated Volvo V70s, we
continued
our pilgrimage toward the town with a name even more
ominous-"Dead horse"!
Turning north from Coldfoot, a haunting message was
posted along the
roadway: The next available services are 244 miles
to the north, it read.
Although
the region is basically uninhabited, Wiseman is 15
miles up the road from
Coldfoot, where the 2000 census counted 21 people.
Undaunted, we drove up
Chandalar
Shelf and through Atigun Pass, where the highway
crosses the Continental
Divide. The pass had been closed for twelve hours
due to an avalanche, a
frequent
occurrence in the winter, so we held our breath and
glided the XC70 over its
winding track with ease, struck by the immensity of
this white land and its
beauty.
Traveling down over the rugged peaks of the Brooks
Range, out onto the
treeless plains of the North Slope, we finally drove
into Deadhorse /
Prudhoe Bay,
and felt like we were at the top of the world. In
the good weather, there
can be an abundance of wildlife: moose, caribou,
Dall sheep, bear, swans,
geese,
ducks, other waterfowl and eagles, along with
snowshoe hares, Arctic ground
squirrels, and even occasionally Musk Ox. We were
not in good weather,
however,
arriving in a "white out" with a temperature of 51
below zero, and we saw
only one Ptarmigan, the Alaskan state bird, and a
couple of caribou.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Jackson" <dolly1025@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
contrarians?
> It is very frustrating not having this vital
information especially for
> referencing. I have just completed my masters
degree and know all too
> well how much hassel it can be to find page
numbers and other vital
> information. The textbooks and reference material
need this information.
>
> Sharon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paula and James Muysenberg"
<outofsightlife@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 11:28 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
contrarians?
>
>
>> Hi, Scott,
>>
>> I can understand that the headings could get
in the way of someone
>> reading purely for pleasure. I'm concerned,
though, about students and
>> researchers, for whom page numbers can be
crucial. Right now, the
>> stripper
>> removes those, and they are only available if you
use the DAISY format.
>> Braille users usually have no way of determining
the corresponding print
>> page, if they need to follow along in class or
site a reference in a
>> paper.
>> I'm not currently a student, but if I were, it
would be frustrating to
>> have
>> access to the book, but not the page numbers--and
in some cases, not even
>> the chapter titles.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Paula
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 5:58 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Where are those
contrarians?
>>
>>
>>> Let me speak first as a reader of Bookshare
books. I mostly read
>>> fiction,
>>> with the occasional pop culture book thrown in
for variety. I read
>>> almost
>>> all these books in Braille. I don't want to see
repeated text such as
>>> page
>>> numbers, author/title info, etc. If people want
to be able to see that
>> info,
>>> there should be an option to include or exclude
this from your book.
>>> Chapters and other major headings should be
included of course, and I
>>> believe that problem will be addressed.
>>>
>>> As a validator, I can't think of a good enough
reason at this point to
>> stop
>>> submitting books and validating them. That
includes the stripper issue.
>>> If
>>> we stop submitting or validating works, we're
hurting a much larger
>>> group
>> of
>>> people than ourselves. The ultimate purpose of
Bookshare is to give
>>> access
>>> to books. There are still many books rated fair
on the website, and in
>>> the
>>> past I'm sure there were a much higher
percentage of "fair" books
>> submitted
>>> to the site, but we wouldn't have wanted those
books held back from
>>> being
>>> available just because they were poorly scanned.
I don't want people
>>> deprived of books just because of a missing
chapter heading, or because
>>> there aren't page numbers included.
>>>
>>> Let's take things slow and easy folks.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rui" <goldWave@xxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:28 PM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Where are those
contrarians?
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hello:
>>> >
>>> > I would like to here from people who disagree
with me.
>>> > Let me know why you think the current setup
makes sense.
>>> >
>>> > I do not mean for people to play devil's
advocate with this.
>>> > I'm asking if anyone seriously disagrees with
the centiments expressed
>>> > over the last 30 hours.
>>> >
>>> > (There is a method to my madness)
>>> >
>>> > -- Rui (who is probably liked at Benetech
right now as much as the
>> plague)
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:26 PM
>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
colatteral damage
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Charlyn and Bookshare community,
>>> >>
>>> >> I think a petition is an excellent idea.
Charlyn, would you like to
>> put
>>> >> it
>>> >> together? Rui, would you put it on the
Bookshare Scans site?
>>> >>
>>> >> I also think we should select a day to make
phone calls and send
>>> >> emails
>>> >> to
>>> >> the Bookshare staff calling on them to turn
off the stripper. How
>> about
>>> >> Thursday, July 28, one week after this most
recent stripper
>>> >> discussion
>>> >> began.
>>> >>
>>> >> We need to take in the fact that, as
Bookshare volunteers and users,
>>> >> we
>>> >> must
>>> >> have direct say on policy issues. Right now
this list is virtually
>>> >> the
>>> >> only
>>> >> vehicle we have for reaching the staff, and
it is clearly
>>> >> ineffective.
>>> >> The
>>> >> stripper issue highlights a need for a more
formalized means of
>>> >> communication. Maybe we should develop an
advisory committee which
>>> >> can
>>> >> bring concerns to the staff and have a real
voice in policymaking.
>>> >>
>>> >> As blind people, most of us have grown up
with the sense that we're
>> lucky
>>> >> to
>>> >> get whatever reading matter is offered to us.
We had better be
>>> >> appreciative
>>> >> and not complain. On the title page of every
book from the National
>>> >> Library
>>> >> Service we read that the book has been
produced for the blind and
>>> >> physically
>>> >> handicapped "with the kind permission of the
publisher." That line
>> about
>>> >> "the kind permission" says so much! Do
sighted people need anyone's
>> kind
>>> >> permission in order to read? I AM in fact
extraordinarily grateful
>>> >> to
>>> >> the
>>> >> volunteers and others who have spent
countless hours putting books
>>> >> into
>>> >> Braille and recorded formats for us, and to
those who have worked to
>>> >> change
>>> >> copyright laws and make our special-format
books possible! Most of
>>> >> us
>>> >> would
>>> >> not be literate, educated, contributing
members of society without
>> their
>>> >> help! But I think that our lifelong
dependence upon others to
>>> >> provide
>> us
>>> >> with books, and the constant feeling that we
must be grateful and
>>> >> that
>> we
>>> >> can't expect too much, do take a toll.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bookshare is different. Bookshare is a
program which is not only FOR
>> us,
>>> >> but BY us. We, the volunteers, determine
what books go into the
>>> >> collection,
>>> >> and we ourselves make them available. We are
not "only volunteers"
>>> >> who
>>> >> have
>>> >> no right to determine policy. We are the
backbone of the program - a
>>> >> program which is created to meet our needs
and those of other blind
>>> >> and
>>> >> print-disabled people. The Bookshare staff
are not users of
>>> >> Bookshare
>>> >> materials. They do not live with the
inaccessibility of print; they
>>> >> don't
>>> >> experience our issues from the inside. It is
absolutely essential
>>> >> that
>>> >> they
>>> >> listen to what we have to say.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bookshare is an incredible program, and I
believe in it utterly. It
>> has
>>> >> the
>>> >> potential to narrow the print gap for us as
no other program ever has
>>> >> before. But we need to take a stand and
insist that it be the
>>> >> quality
>>> >> program we all deserve.
>>> >>
>>> >> Debbie
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Charlene" <caota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM
>>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
colatteral damage
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Maybe we could put together a pteition of
some sort and put a notice
>> on
>>> >>> the volunteer website as well to see if we
could get enough people
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> sign it to send to bookshare requesting them
to stop using the
>> program.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Pam Quinn
>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:02 PM
>>> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
colatteral damage
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We take pride in our submissions and I just
don't think a lot of the
>>> >>> bookshare staff understands how angry and
frustrated we are when we
>> see
>>> >>> that our submissions have been mangled. And
for what? I just don't
>>> >>> get
>>> >>> it. Why do they insist on holding on to that
useless program that
>> nobody
>>> >>> wants? Seems to me if anything, dropping it
would mean one less step
>> and
>>> >>> less work in putting the books on the site.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I use chapter headings for my breaking
points in .mp3 files too,
>>> >>> when
>>> >>> I'm lucky enough to have them.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It might not be our decision and they might
not want to listen to
>>> >>> us,
>>> >>> but that would be unfortunate, because the
volunteers and
>>> >>> subscribers
>>> >>> have a major role in determining the future
of bookshare.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Pam
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Original message:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >I have seriously considered not submitting
some books I have
>>> >>> >scanned
>>> >>> >just
>>> >>> >because I thought they would be of little
use after the stripper
>>> >>> finished
>>> >>> >with them. I put a lot of work in to what
I submit and it is
>>> >>> >really
>>> >>> >upsetting to see the final result when my
original looked so nice,
>> and
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> >is only a volunteer's view. I also am
upset by the messes that I
>> come
>>> >>> >accross when I am reading, even for
pleasure. I use the chapter
>>> >>> headings
>>> >>> >as my MP3 creation breaking points, so if
they aren't there I have
>>> >>> >a
>>> >>> big
>>> >>> >mess!
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >I don't really like throwing fits, and I
won't on this list because
>> it
>>> >>> >seems to serve little purpose, but the fits
are completely
>>> >>> >justified.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >If i submitted a book in DAISY and BRF
format instead of in RTF
>>> >>> >would
>>> >>> >the
>>> >>> >normal automated processes be skipped?
That is the only thing I
>>> >>> >can
>>> >>> think
>>> >>> >of to rescue books where the headers,
headings, and page numbers
>>> >>> >are
>>> >>> >invaluable.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Sarah Van Oosterwijck
>>> >>> >Assistive Technology Trainer
http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
>>> >>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >From: "Deborah Kent Stein"
<dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
>>> >>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>> >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:10 PM
>>> >>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and
colatteral damage
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Hear, hear! I agree 200%!
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> We have been telling the Bookshare staff
about our concerns,
>> politely
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> but firmly, literally for years. Despite
all the talk, nothing
>>> >>> >> has
>>> >>> >> changed. I am beginning to think we need
to take stronger action.
>> We
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> ARE volunteers.
>>> >>> >> We do not have to contribute the
thousands of hours we put into
>> this
>>> >>> >> program. And Bookshare cannot survive
without us. Do we need to
>> say
>>> >>> we
>>> >>> >> will have to stop scanning and validating
until we know that
>> someone
>>> >>> out
>>> >>> >> there is really listening to us, and
taking action? It should
>>> >>> >> not
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> come down to threats and strikes, but
many of us are at our wit's
>>> >>> end.
>>> >>> >> What
>>> >>> >> is it going to take to turn off the
stripper and stop mangling
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> books
>>> >>> >> we
>>> >>> >> work so hard to make available?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Debbie
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> >> From: "Rui" <goldwave@xxxxxxx>
>>> >>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 AM
>>> >>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] stripper and
colatteral damage
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> Good Afternoon:
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> At the bookshare users meeting at NFB, I
made it very clear to
>>> >>> >>> Jim
>>> >>> >>> (like
>>> >>> >> he didn't know already) the issues with
the stripper and why i
>> think
>>> >>> >> it should be removed.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> The whole concept of the stripper
bothers me, not just the fact
>>> >>> >>> it
>>> >>> >>> does
>>> >>> >> more than it's supposed too.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Its very reason for being agrivates me.
>>> >>> >>> Regular print books have headers, some
have footers, that is
>>> >>> >>> part
>> of
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> a
>>> >>> >> print book.
>>> >>> >>> If we want digital copies of print books
then, take the good
>>> >>> >>> with
>>> >>> >>> the
>>> >>> >>> bad.
>>> >>> >>> Do not sanitize the book to make it more
access technology
>> friendly.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> The
>>> >>> >> very fact that is accessible already does
that.
>>> >>> >>> If i don't want to read the headers, i
can strip them out myself
>> or
>>> >>> >>> use
>>> >>> >>> my
>>> >>> >> own automated tool to do so.
>>> >>> >>> However, If by chance I do want them
there, I simply do not get
>>> >>> >>> that
>>> >>> >> option with Bookshare!!!
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Words do not do justice to how much this
issue ticks me off.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Bottomline, this process does not serve
the community that it
>>> >>> >>> was
>>> >>> >>> designed
>>> >>> >> to assist.
>>> >>> >>> -- Rui
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> > From: Mike Pietruk <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>> >>> > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 11:00:39 EDT
>>> >>> >>> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>> >>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> > Pam
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> > agreed! It's inconsistent and
unpredictable. And the
>>> >>> >>> > problems
>>> >>> >>> > relative
>>> >>> >>> > to it have been discussed repeatedly.
>>> >>> >>> > The Powers-that-be are all too aware
of the damage the
>>> >>> >>> > stripper
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> >> caused
>>> >>> >>> > but seem to have shoved it on the back
burner probably due to
>> more
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> > pressing issues to deal with. It is a
shame that it cannot be
>>> >>> >>> > dealt with; but Marissa, prior to her
leaving, pretty much
>>> >>> >>> > outlined where it stands. So I
wouldn't expect much change
>>> >>> >>> > regarding the stripper as any change
would require some sort
>>> >>> >>> > of
>>> >>> >>> > policy change plus programmer action.
Conceptually, the
>>> >>> >>> > stripper
>>> >>> >>> > makes sense; practically, it has been
a
>>> >>> >> dismal
>>> >>> >>> > failure breading as much (or perhaps
even more) than it has
>>> >>> >>> > repaired. It's not our decision as we
are volunteers, not
>>> >>> >>> > decision-makers.
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>> >
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> --
>>> >>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> >>> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> >>> >> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database:
267.9.2/52 - Release Date:
>>> >>> 7/19/2005
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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