Thanks for your response, Dr. Arbisi - I'm a big fan of your research. J In Table 3 in the article I attached (one that you attached as well), it's indicated that the sensitivity to overreporting of Fp at a cutoff of > 100T is 0.49, and the sensitivity at a cutoff of > 85T is 0.60. Those are both fairly modest figures in comparison to the sensitivity of the Meyers Validity Index (0.86), which uses a weighting of multiple MMPI validity scales, including Fp. The Meyers Index also offers no reduction in specificity (1.0) from the figures associated with Fp in your article, which are exceptionally high. And that was my original point - Fp appears to be relatively insensitive to overreporting, in comparison to other available methods of assessing response style. In essence, using Fp alone rather than the combination of MMPI validity scales in the Meyers Index would miss 37% of overreporting respondents at a cutoff of > 100T, and 26% of overreporting respondents at a cutoff of > 85T. That's a lot of false negatives in my opinion. Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Siegel, Wayne Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 7:05 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Cc: Arbisi, Paul Subject: [AVAPL Members] FW: Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Dr. Arbisi asked that I forward his response to the mail group. I invited him to comment given his expertise in this area. Wayne Wayne G. Siegel, Ph.D., ABPP Licensed Psychologist Director of Training/ Psychology Supervisor Minneapolis VA Medical Center 612.467.4024 wayne.siegel@xxxxxx <http://www.minneapolis.va.gov/education/psychology/psyc_home.asp> http://www.minneapolis.va.gov/education/psychology/psyc_home.asp From: Arbisi, Paul Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 11:07 AM To: Siegel, Wayne Subject: RE: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Since, I am not a member of AVAPL and do not participate in the list serve, Dr. Hagan's opinion regarding the utility of the F family of scales in identification of non-credible reporting of PTSD symptoms was forwarded to me by Dr. Siegel who asked if I would like provide a response that would serve to inform the list. First off, the utility of the MMPI-2 F family of scales and in particular the FP scale to identify non credible reporting of symptoms across a wide range of psychiatric conditions including PTSD is well established. As a matter of fact, among all the MMPI-2 scales examined in the Rogers et al., meta-analysis (2003), FP was the best single scale on the MMPI-2 in identifying feigned psychopathology across a wide range of clinical settings. Further, in a study published in Psychological Services, the FP scale out performed the other MMPI-2 validity scales in discriminating between veterans who were instructed to exaggerate PTSD and those who were instructed to respond honestly on the MMPI-2 shortly after completing a C&P Examination secondary to a claim for service connection for PTSD. Finally, Efendov, Sellbom, & Bagby (2008) found that the F family of scales accurately discriminated a group of remitted trauma victims who were instructed to fake PTSD on the MMPI-2 and provided coaching on how to avoid detection from a group of injured workers diagnosed with PTSD. F and Fp outperformed Trauma Symptom Inventory validity scales as well as the MMPI-2 FBS in discriminating the trauma exposed group feigning PTSD from the injured worker group. FP produced the largest effect sizes of all the MMPI-2 validity scales examined in both the coached and uncoached conditions. In sum, based on studies complied in the Rogers et al., 2003 meta analysis as well as a large number of empirical studies published since that time, the F family of scales continue to be the best set of scales on the MMPI-2 and the MMPI-2 RF in the detection of non-credible reporting of psychiatric conditions including PTSD. I am speculating, but Dr. Hagan's opinion may in part reflect the setting he practices in. The observation that most individual's who feign PTSD do not try to appear crazy or psychotic comes from the neuropsychological and personal injury settings where claimants often report onset of PTSD symptoms after a relatively mild physical injury. For example, someone slips and falls in a big box store and claims chronic pain and cognitive impairment resulting from a mild TBI but also claims to have developed PTSD symptoms. In these cases the injured claimant is more likely to attempt to present to the examiner as reasonable, but emotionally distressed without appearing severely psychiatrically disturbed or thought disordered. On the other hand, if the primary claim is purely emotional and the individual is claiming a consequential psychological injury, such as the PTSD claims we all see in the VA, exaggeration or fabrication on the MMPI-2 will reflect severe psychopathology. I am only aware of a single study that examined implausible PTSD claims where an MMPI-2 validity scale other than the F family of scales outperformed FP. Greiffenstein et. al., 2004 found that the FBS outperformed the F family of scales in discriminating a group of litigants who reported implausible Post Traumatic Symptoms after a relatively minor trauma (i.e., the trauma would not have met criteria A) from a group of litigants who experienced a major trauma (likely met criteria A). Importantly, the report of PTSD symptoms occurred within the context of litigation after a physical injury and was frequently associated with reported claims of cognitive impairment. Under these circumstances, the FBS has been repeatedly found to outperform the F family of scales in identifying individuals who non-credibly report cognitive and somatic problems (see the Nelson et al., 2010 meta-analysis). Indeed, the FBS is one of the most effective MMPI-2 validity scales in predicting failure of symptom validity measures. To summarize, there is really no question that the F family of scales and in particular the FP are the best scales on the MMPI-2 and MMPI-2 RF in identifying the non-credible reporting of PTSD symptoms. However, when the claim of PTSD takes place within the context of a simultaneous claim of TBI or physical injury, then the FBS and now the RBS, a scale designed specifically to identify individuals who fail SVT, may have an advantage over the F family of scales in identifying non-credible report of PTSD symptoms associated with the head injury. (Arbisi, Ben-Porath, & McNulty, 2006; Efendov, Sellbom, & Bagby, 2008; Greiffenstein, Baker, Axelrod, Peck, & Gervais, 2004; Nelson, Hoelzle, Sweet, Arbisi, & Demakis, 2010; Rogers, Sewell, Martin, & Vitacco, 2003) Arbisi, P. A., Ben-Porath, Y. S., & McNulty, J. (2006). The ability of the MMPI-2 to detect feigned PTSD within the context of compensation seeking. Psychological Services, 3, 249-261. Efendov, A. A., Sellbom, M., & Bagby, R. M. (2008). The utility and comparative incremental validity of the MMPI-2 and Trauma Symptom Inventory validity scales in the detection of feigned PTSD. Psychological Assessment, 20(4), 317-326. Greiffenstein, M. F., Baker, W. J., Axelrod, B., Peck, E. A., & Gervais, R. (2004). The Fake Bad Scale and MMPI-2 F family in detection of implausible psychological trauma claims. The Clinical Neuropsychologist, 18, 573-590. Nelson, N. W., Hoelzle, J. B., Sweet, J. J., Arbisi, P. A., & Demakis, G. J. (2010). Updated meta-analysis of the MMPI-2 symptom validity scale (FBS): verified utility in forensic practice. The Clinical Neuropsychologist, 24, 701-724. Rogers, R., Sewell, K. W., Martin, M. A., & Vitacco, M. J. (2003). Detection of Feigned Mental Disorders: A Meta-analysis of the MMPI-2 and Malingering. Assessment, 10(2), 160-177. Paul A. Arbisi, Ph.D., ABAP, ABPP. L.P. Staff Clinical Psychologist Minneapolis VA Medical Center Associate Professor Depts of Psychiatry and Psychology University of Minnesota _____ From: Siegel, Wayne Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:20 AM To: Arbisi, Paul Subject: FW: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Paul - interested in responding? Wayne Wayne Wayne G. Siegel, Ph.D., ABPP Licensed Psychologist Director of Training/ Psychology Supervisor Minneapolis VA Medical Center 612.467.4024 wayne.siegel@xxxxxx <http://www.minneapolis.va.gov/education/psychology/psyc_home.asp> http://www.minneapolis.va.gov/education/psychology/psyc_home.asp From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L. Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:58 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Thanks for bringing up the MMPI, Denise. You mention F and Fp, and those are certainly scales to consider when assessing response style; however, there are many more validity scales the MMPI offers for consideration, and I find that F and Fp are very often insensitive to an overreporting response style to which the other validity scales often appear to be more sensitive. I've attached an article on this if anyone's interested. Based on my experience using the scales in the article (in the neighborhood of a thousand administrations), Fp is by far the scale least sensitive to overreporting in cases of PTSD. This stands to reason, since people would presumably endorse items on the Fp scale if they're attempting to appear "crazy" (psychotic), which is inconsistent with PTSD. Of course there's also the possibility of administering additional measures of response style, which offers the potential of confirming or refuting hypotheses generated by the MMPI. I've attached an article on that as well. Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of denise abney Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:47 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor At a fairly recent MMPI2- RF workshop, Paul Arbisi presented on the new restructured scales of the MMPI and mentioned that the research he was involved in indicated that the PK and PS scales were not useful in determining who may have PTSD since the scale mostly reflected level of distress. This made so much sense and a lightbulb went on and has stayed on since. I wonder if administering the MMPI2-RF would help distinguish between level of distress and symptomology in patients with PTSD? I've given the MMPI to almost every patient I have worked with over the last 18 years. MMPI's of many severe cases often suggested that the results were invalid due to an unusual level of over-reporting. However when I looked at the pattern of scores in the profiles, I could see that it was relatively consistent (high 2,4,6,7,8) with PTSD patients with valid profiles. The F scores are always high as well unless a patient has developed a lifestyle around their symptoms or they have had some treatment. I don't necessarily discard these results as invalid or malingering. In fact the Fp scale score often indicates malingering is not occurring despite overreporting. The patient's presentation is usually consistent in terms of the severity of intrapsychic and interpersonal problems. In these cases the F scale score is typically very high compared to non-PTSD diagnosed patients which also suggests the results are invalid. Unfortunately, others often dismiss these patients as malingerers or dismiss results when they indeed indicate a very severe level of distress. And these may be individuals that are in most need of help. If, when stripped of "distress", the MMPI can be used to look at symptomology, it would be very useful in helping to understand PTSD, what it looks like in individuals (and I do believe in subgroups, i.e. relivers and avoiders, the defenses they use to cope, a more accurate picture of symptom severity, and levels of distress and how they impact assessment. I'd want this and the PAI to be included as they are now somewhat complementary in my eyes. The PAI needs to be giving to pts with PTSD to develop norms and the interpretations can be made available for free if VA is willing to allow the testing corporations to analyze the data for these purposes. We have years of data on these patients that could be reviewed by assessment researchers. Since our system is so large, it wouldn't take much time to have huge samples to work with on any test we give. Some VA's could use a few tests and others could use other tests for outcome or other variables. I could go crazy thinking of the possibilities for assessment research. I have always wanted to see assessment clinics in the VA. We could diagnose and recommend good treatment for more patients and be very efficient about it. I think we need to look as defenses in assessment. Many PTSD patients have been misdiagnosed, for example, as narcissistic personality disorder because their defenses are of this type. There are lots of variables which come from the old fashioned womb to tomb evaluations... trauma history in childhood, coping styles in childhood, social support in childhood and the same variables in adulthood after adult trauma and on and on. One especially pertinent variable would be related to the wax and wane of symptomology in every patient as test results differ depending on where the patient is with their symptoms at the time - again - level of distress and stress play a role. If we already do these things than why not template the evaluations and use the data for research. It would help with training, we could look up this information for patients on an as needed basis for other clinicians, for ourselves, track progress in therapy with variables.....How could other VA clinicians argue with that large a sample? Tracking people over time? You would have hard data to show and explain to others. It might remove the compensation seeking issue. Can't a person who is ill seek compensation too? If our history of assessment with these tools has provided us with respect over the years, it only makes sense to me to stay committed to what we have been most successful at and what has distinguished us from others. Enough Denise Cardin Abney San Antonio On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Hagans, Chad L. <Chad.Hagans@xxxxxx> wrote: That sounds like a great idea, Kathleen. I would encourage anyone attempting such research to include measures of response style, since the reputation of our profession within the VA may be affected by the results. I'm attaching an article with more details for those who are interested. Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of McNamara, Kathleen M. Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:05 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Quite a number of years ago, the APA Practice Directorate had a project with Atlantic Bell South which showed a significant reduction in costs when psychological assessments (objective testing like MMPI) were used with those who were covered under insurance by them. The savings came from proper diagnosis and follow-up treatment recommendations, with significant reduction in psychiatric hospitalizations, in particular. Unfortunately, when I have tried to track down anything published or even a summary report, I have been informed that the data were proprietary and it is not a published finding. I would like to see the Denver VA study (or have the reference), if you could please forward that to me. Thank you. It would be great if we had some efforts from OMHS to coordinate a study across VA MHSs to do a large scale study, where psychological assessments were included in Intakes to make diagnostic decisions, and then utilization and/or costs for things such as: medications, hospitalizations, and subsequent number of visits to each of the various MH provider groups (psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker, counselor) over a two year period could be tracked. I think our resources would be well spent. Kathleen M. McNamara, Ph.D., ABPP Lead Professional, Psychology Staff Psychologist, Maui VA CBOC 808-871-2454 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L. Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:59 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Right, but how much money does it save when you use it? J I think that's the question the people making the decisions are asking, unfortunately. Now, is anyone in our field working on answering that question? Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evans, F. Barton Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:55 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Well said, William. There is an empirically well supported treatment method called Therapeutic Assessment (TA) developed by Dr. Stephen Finn in Austin which integrates psychological assessment and treatment. There was even a study done at the Denver VA successfully using TA with suicidal veterans. If anyone is interested, I would be glad to send information next week. F Barton Evans, PhD Clinical Psychologist VA Montana Health Care System Bozeman CBOC Bozeman, MT 59715 Clinical Professor Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science George Washington University School of Medicine CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is intended for the addressed recipient only, and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately, and destroy the original message and all copies thereof. From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Crisp, William Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:01 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor What sets psychologists apart and makes them valuable is their training and ability to conduct research and do assessments. Many psychologists seem to have ignored these assets in favor of developing things like manualized training which opens the door for other disciplines to do our work. In many VA settings research and assessment are discouraged as time consuming and less important than therapy, case management and documentation. Instead psychologists should develop protocols which emphasize both assessment and research as guides to treatment. This could greatly improve treatment over generic style manualized treatment and demonstrate the value of psychologists. William Crisp, Ph.D. Clinical Psychologist Substance Treatment Employment Program Central Texas Veteran's Health care System Temple, TX From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hagans, Chad L. Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:03 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor In my opinion just another failure by psychology to demonstrate empirically the value of what we offer over and above the value of what other mental health professionals offer, if indeed that value exists. I'd like to think it does because I'm a psychologist, but to say it does without empirical evidence would indicate bias more than anything else in my opinion. It's time to get to work and demonstrate the value. Who wants to do the work? Chad Hagans, Ph.D. Licensed Psychologist Pensacola Joint Ambulatory Care Clinic 850-912-2000 ext. 2091 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Long, Stephen [Northport] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 3:30 PM To: 'members1@xxxxxxxxx' Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Edgardo, you sound the way I feel at times like these. It is very difficult to see so much of what one has worked for (developing skills, making what contributions you can, getting doctoral and postdoctoral training) over a professional career to have much of that devalued, denied, dismissed. om: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirchberg, Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:49 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Thank you, Edgardo. I value your viewpoint on all the issues you raise! Tom Thomas M. Kirchberg, Ph.D., ABPP Chief Psychologist Mental Health Service VA Medical Center Memphis 901-523-8990 ext. 5320 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Padin, Edgardo (VHACLE) Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 9:55 PM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor By interesting, I'm sure you mean discouraging. After 20+ years in the VA, I continue to be astounded at how so many other professions continue to have sufficient advocacy to increase their grade levels commensurate with their responsibilities (case in point, Social Workers continue a juggernaut rise in grade with each new "position" created (most now seemingly needing GS-12 grades) while psychologist have an almost insurmountable task getting approvals at the GS-14 level. The data notwithstanding (that we have increased the number of GS-14 positions), the success of our Hybrid T38 and Professional Standards Boards have been underwhelming. This is not to start an old argument about our glass ceiling as psychologists in the VA; but it is to say that this new initiative to bring in and somehow "Qualify" Master's Level Counselors is a lobbyist win by Master's Level Counselors and Counseling Programs to establish their niche in the VA. And it will ultimately be to the detriment of Psychology. A system of lower entry pay entry "counselors" who can rise to the GS-13 by taking on greater responsibility means fewer Psychologists will be needed as they become overseers of a cadre counselors doing more of the supposed "drone" work of fully manualized and technicalized therapy. What a Brave New World. Anyone who thinks this is not the case should look at the private sector and see how lower level "Assistants" are replacing part of the work (and the pay) of their more educated colleagues. Let me clarify here that I have nothing against Master's Level Counselors, we have used them in Cleveland ever since I have been here. I don't know who is trying to kid whom whey they say that this is a "new position" of Mental Health Counselor, but we have had GS101-11 Readjustment Counselors in the VA for well over thee decades. They have limitations, but have worked out well in the areas we have used them. But what I do know is that not a single one has ever shown that they have some secret knowledge or facility or skill and foundational learning that is different from, greater than, or particularly more technical in nature that Psychologists. Usually, they have less. The only difference now is that some accreditation body (CACREP) can now be added as a profession lobbying body in the VA. Personally, I am not amused. So, maybe we as Psychologists are too educated, maybe manualized, evidence based protocols are making our "therapy" work too rote and straightforward for the amount of pay we are demanding, maybe what we do, with a good cookbook here and an evidence based therapy there, can be done by cheaper labor. I'm not sure; but I will say that with this cannon shot of promoting our Master's Level colleagues, we will find out. End of rant. From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Fischer, Pamela (OKL) Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:52 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Re: Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor It is interesting to me that the LPC who is a program manager can be a GS 13 - the grade level that many psychologists who manage programs and have years of experience cannot move beyond. Pamela C. Fischer, Ph.D. Director, Primary Care Mental Health #111AC Veterans Affairs Medical Center -OKC 921 N.E. 13th Street Oklahoma City, OK 73104 Phone: 405-456-3634 Fax: 405-456--5956 From: avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:avaplmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shorter, George Wiley Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:54 AM To: members1@xxxxxxxxx Subject: [AVAPL Members] Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor Colleagues, As many of you have been awaiting the Qualification Standards for Mental Health Counselors, we wanted to share these with you when we first received it. George Shorter, Ph.D. President, AVAPL "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country." -George Washington Error! Filename not specified. Date: 9/29/10 ID#: 2010-25 Policy Office: Recruitment & Placement Policy Service (059) Contact: Kent A. Wellman (Kent.Wellman2@xxxxxx) Policy Subject: VA Handbook 5005, PT II, Chapter 2, Appendix G43, Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor qualification standard. Handbook Reference: 5005 The attached new VA qualification standard for Licensed Professional Mental Health Counselor, GS-101 has been signed. Since this is a new occupation to VA there will NOT be an initial one-time boarding. Additional implementation instructions and guidance will be forthcoming from the Veterans Health Administration (VHA). The new Appendix G43 will be added to the electronic version of VA Handbook 5005, Pt II, located at http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/HRLibrary/Dir-Policy.htm Questions regarding this Policy Update should be addressed to the Title 38 Staffing Policy Section, mailto:staffingpolicy059/vaco@xxxxxxx Status: Policy Process Step 4 Estimated date of release/implementation: 9/29/2010 This policy alert e-mail is part of a notification process that is intended to alert HR Specialists and other interested parties that a new policy or change to existing policy is required or being considered. If you have specific questions regarding this policy alert, please address them to the contact person named above. Policy update e-mails regarding this policy subject will be automatically generated according to the policy communication schedule/timeline. For more information about this policy alert or the policy communication schedule/timeline please go to http://vaww.va.gov/ohrm/ <http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/>