atw: Certification (was Strange job advertisements/skills combinations)
- From: "bja" <bashley@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:09:13 +1100
Hi Warren,
This has been discussed for several years now and successive committees have
looked at the issue only to drop it when the going became too hard.
I spoke to Sue Woolley about this a few months ago and she confirmed that
both ASTCs were again looking at the certification issue and she showed me
the model being discussed (more on that at another time).
Since that discussion, though, I have not seen or heard of any progress so I
though it had been put on a back burner once again.
If there is now some outcome of this process, as indicated by Janet, it
would be good if a joint release of the information could come through both
ASTCs at the same time (any chance of bumming an electronic copy of the NSW
newsletter? I went to the ASTC (NSW) site but the publications page is a bit
out of date).
Anyway, as both you and Allan indicate, this is a starting point only so
more work will need to be done and the process will evolved over time (but
it sounds like we at least have a start which is great - well done).
Hopefully this will eventually weed out the pretenders and allow real
technical writers to stay in the profession. Maybe then, the 'profession'
will actually become a profession.
BTW. Good luck Warren. From memory you were going back to your trade roots.
Even so, you should keep your hand in (ASTC newsletters/website/docs for
volunteer organisations et al) because when certification becomes
established, employers will clearly see a TW's level and will employ
accordingly (we all hope).
For example, for some really atrocious documentation, go to the Department
of Transport and Regional Services site (www.dotars.gov.au) and look at some
of the forms and documents
(http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/application_approval_import_vehic
le_september_03.pdf is a case in point).
Obviously some highly skilled TW handiwork (please forgive the dripping
sarcasm).
Regards,
Bruce Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Warren Lewington
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 5:54 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
>
>
> I started the process twelve or so months ago and I am having to hand
> that on.
>
> Why?
>
> I cannot find any work as a Technical writer and have
> basically given up
> on the industry.
> I cannot afford to wait anymore, I have to make a living.
>
> Other Sydney based ASTC members will continue the process,
> assuming they
> stay in the industry too.
> The basic accreditation process is there, it is waiting to be
> implemented. They could do with a hand setting it all up bja.
> Warren Lewington.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of bja
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:36 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisements/skills combinations
>
>
> Since I guess I started this, I'm going to have one last say on it.
>
> (BTW Geoff, I'm fully back on the air again - thanks)
>
> Interestingly, I note the agency involved has not commented.
>
> Anyway, despite everyone agreeing that testing is a good thing, they
> miss the point of the original email: The company gave no details in
> their ad. The company requested a "page per day rate".
>
> There are only two reasons (in my suspicious, beady little
> eyes) that a
> company would ask for this: 1. To get rough estimates they were unable
> to get for themselves (and the main reason would be for quoting in a
> tender) and 2. So that they can tie a TW to a contract where
> remuneration is based on that rate.
>
> To use this figure as some form of measure to apply against different
> applicants would be stupid and therefore is an unlikely reason.
>
> Having seen a few trawlers and shonky people in the employment agency
> business over the years, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that I'm
> right on this one.
>
> Also, in relation to the subsequent comments, I personally believe we
> should have system of certification based on a skills matrix (listing
> all skills
> possible) where those accredited have been formally tested by their
> peers (a once-a-month panel of ASTC members et al). It would be
> difficult at first but as more TWs became accredited, it would become
> easier and this would reduce the need for companies like HCi to run
> tests (although I would probably still test an applicants
> knowledge and
> I will always use a resume as the first test of a writer's abilities).
>
> Certification could even be an income generator for the ASTCs
> and a one
> time fee would apply. TWs could go for re-accreditation for a reduced
> fee once their skills or experience change.
>
> But this is an old argument of mine and others.
>
> ASTCs..... ? <Jab> <Jab> - it's been a few months now. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Ashley
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> > joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 10:24 AM
> > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: atw: Re: Strange job advertisments/skills combinations
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I hear what you say, CBK, and I'm not saying bja's concerns
> > aren't relevant..
> >
> > IMNSHO though, I like the ad. If taken from the
> perspective that they
>
> > might actually know what a tech writer does, and know what
> a good tech
>
> > writer should produce, it would act as a magic filter system...
> >
> > Say fer instance a newbie applies and states they can
> produce 20 pages
>
> > a day... immediate fail... unrealistic self-expectations.
> >
> > Say perhaps a reasonably experienced tech writer applies
> and stating
> > they can produce 5 pages per day, but does not mention that
> this can
> > vary depending of difficulty of app, availability of SMEs and
> > variations in toolsets provided by company... Fail again, seemingly
> > unaware of the variations from task to task.
> >
> > Then someone like bja, or cbk comes along, states a range
> of possible
> > page-per-day results, lists the possible factors affecting
> production
> > rate, queries the need for such a tight skill set... Immediate
> > second interview
> > because these people obviously have what it takes to
> > realistically assess
> > and plan for a task...immediately exhibiting the level of
> tech writer
> > knowledge and skill required for a serious tech writing job...
> >
> >
> > Sure as hell would cut through the several hundred wanna be
> > applicants.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Zolin
> > Technical Communicator/Tech Comms MYOB
> > E-mail: JOE.ZOLIN@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Phone (work): (03) 9222 9992 Ext. 7429
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "BIRTLEY-KENT,Christine"
> >
> > <Christine.BIRTLEY-KENT@de To:
> > <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wr.gov.au> cc:
> >
> > Sent by:
> > Subject: atw: Strange job advertisments/skills
> > combinations
> > austechwriter-bounce@freel
> >
> > ists.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 25/02/2004 10:11 AM
> >
> > Please respond to
> >
> > austechwriter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Keep smiling, not everyone is out ta get ya!=20=20=20=20
> >
> > Nonetheless, it is still impossible to quote a pages per day rate
> > without assessing the environment for which you are
> developing those
> > pages. My rate can vary from 1 to 16 depending upon degree of
> > difficulty and quality expectations.
> >
> > Perhaps someone who is applying for work in Melbourne will
> apply and
> > let us know what happens. It doesn't hurt to stay informed.
> >
> > There is an ad in Canberra at the moment asking for an e-learning
> > developer. The third requirement is:
> >
> > 3. Provision of an eLearning tool that has an inbuilt tool to track
> > learning administration and can interface with Aurion and meet IT
> > infrastructure requirements=20
> >
> > How can anyone provide this tool without first knowing the
> > infrastructure and other variables? And how many training
> developers
> > are software vendors? Realistically they need to be asking for
> > someone with 'the skills to find' an appropriate eLearning tool....
> >
> > I would be interested to know if these people get inundated by the
> > wrong type of applicants too.
> >
> > ck
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:joe_zolin@xxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:45 AM
> > To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: atw: Re: New Pay Scales for TWs?
> >
> >
> >
> > I thought they were asking how many pages a day you could
> produce, not
>
> > the expected charge rate per page.
> >
> > Direct quote from ad:
> > "please quote an approximate pages-per-day rate"
> >
> > Still vague, though, but I've got a feeling that bja migyht
> be jumping
>
> > the gun a bit here.
> >
> > Also, consider the reasons for not stating company name... If the
> > company actually said who they were, there would be flock
> (or should I
>
> > say
> > murder..) of agencies descending upon them trying to get
> the listing
> > and subsequant placement fee for their own.
> >
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > = =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20
> > =20=20=20
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2
> > 0=20=20=20=20
> > =
> > =20
> >
> >
> > Joe Zolin
> > Technical Communicator/Tech Comms MYOB
> > E-mail: JOE.ZOLIN@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Phone (work): (03) 9222 9992 Ext. 7429
> >
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