Perhaps we need to consider theories in relation to the communities that
affiliate around them. Academic fields are highly structured and
metastable...until they aren’t.
David
From: asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf
of Bradley Smith <semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, 22 February 2024 at 5:08 pm
To: asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [asflanet] Re: better-or-worse
Indeed.
I think theories are like languages whose terms can be translated from one to
the other but only with difficulty integrated into a coherent whole, a new
language or theory - ? I had in mind Halliday's and Brazil's descriptions of
intonation within their respective theoretical frameworks...
Bradley A. Smith,
PhD (Linguistics), BA Hons 1st Class (Linguistics), Macquarie University.
Proprietor: Semiosmith Academic Editing and Consulting Services -
http://semiosmith.com/.<https://url.au.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/NQiQCMwGxOt2Nj0v7twodtZ?domain=semiosmith.com/>
Honorary Associate, Department of Linguistics, Faculty of Arts and Social
Sciences, University of Sydney.
Ph - 0450 146 456
Email - semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>
I acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land where I live and work,
situated on the land of the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nations,
and pay my respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. I am voting YES to a
Constitutional Voice.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 9:23 AM David Rose
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yes, do he and the interviewer mean the same thing by ‘compare’?
But he makes his positions very clear, eg ‘a theory which leads to what I would
call ethnocentrism’
Jim’s caveat in WWD is very relevant here...
...ideational meanings can be used to appraise, even though explicitly
evaluative lexis is avoided. It perhaps should be stressed again here that
appraisal analysts do need to declare their reading position - in particular
since the evaluation one makes of evocations depends on the institutional
position one is reading from. For example, according to reading position,
formal and functional linguists will evaluate terms in the following sets of
oppositions in complementary ways - with firm convictions about what the good
guys and the bad guys should celebrate:
rule/resource:: cognitive/social:: acquisition/development::
syntagmatic/paradigmatic:: form/function:: language/parole:: system/process::
psychology&philosophy/sociology&anthropology:: cognitive/social::
theory/description:: intuition/corpus:: knowledge/meaning:: syntax/discourse::
pragmatics/context:: parsimony/extravagance:: cognitive/critical::
technicist/humanist:: truth/social action:: performance/instantiation::
categorical/probabilistic:: contradictory/complementary::
proof/exemplification:: reductive/comprehensive:: arbitrary/natural::
modular/fractal:: syntax&lexicon/lexicogrammar...
David
From: asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Bradley Smith <semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Wednesday, 21 February 2024 at 5:38 pm
To: asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [asflanet] Re: better-or-worse
haha! - you'd think I'd have them all done and ready to go after all these
years...
Just downloaded the 1977 MAKH interview that you posted recently, the bit about
theories not being comparable is going to come in useful somewhere along the
way, I think :)
This quote you just sent now reminds me of all that is problematic and
unhelpful (i.e. to our threatened existence) about public discourse about
climate change these last decades...
Bradley A. Smith,
PhD (Linguistics), BA Hons 1st Class (Linguistics), Macquarie University.
Proprietor: Semiosmith Academic Editing and Consulting Services -
http://semiosmith.com/.<https://url.au.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/NQiQCMwGxOt2Nj0v7twodtZ?domain=semiosmith.com/>
Honorary Associate, Department of Linguistics, Faculty of Arts and Social
Sciences, University of Sydney.
Ph - 0450 146 456
Email - semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>
I acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land where I live and work,
situated on the land of the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nations,
and pay my respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. I am voting YES to a
Constitutional Voice.
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 5:31 PM David Rose
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I don’t think you need a promotion Brad. The horse is already half-drunk...just
give us more.
Here he quotes Sampson...
[cid:ii_18dce069b874cff312]
From: asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf
of Bradley Smith <semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Wednesday, 21 February 2024 at 5:15 pm
To: asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: [asflanet] Re: better-or-worse
Hi David,
Saussure's (1916/1974: 9, see quote below) relegation of speech including
intonation to parole also led a view nicely illustrated in Bolinger's
famous/influential characterisation of intonation as (1964/1972: 29) a
“half-tamed servant of language”, and to the yawning gulf between those who
study phonology and phonetics (science, skipper! for those who know the
cartoon) and those who study language and discourse ('impressionistic'
humanists).
Saussure's (reported) statement: "As I see it, there is only one
solution...from the very outset we must put both feet on the ground of language
and use language as the norm of all other manifestations of speech [italics in
original]...But what is language...It is not to be confused with human
speech...Taken as a whole, speech is many-sided and heterogeneous...we cannot
discover its unity. Language, on the contrary, is a self-contained whole”. As
Halliday (1985 Spoken and Written Language) argues, this makes sense when the
language you study is predominantly the language that is written down - 'we
murder to dissect'. the study of spoken discourse as speech, within linguistics
and discourse studies, is still, remarkably, relatively rare... (does this
sound like a promotion for my YouTube lecture series on intonation? 😁🤔)
Nice quote David,
cheers,
Brad
Bradley A. Smith,
PhD (Linguistics), BA Hons 1st Class (Linguistics), Macquarie University.
Proprietor: Semiosmith Academic Editing and Consulting Services -
http://semiosmith.com/.<https://url.au.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/NQiQCMwGxOt2Nj0v7twodtZ?domain=semiosmith.com/>
Honorary Associate, Department of Linguistics, Faculty of Arts and Social
Sciences, University of Sydney.
Ph - 0450 146 456
Email - semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:semiosmith@xxxxxxxxx>
I acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land where I live and work,
situated on the land of the Wurundjeri/Woiwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nations,
and pay my respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. I am voting YES to a
Constitutional Voice.
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 4:25 PM David Rose
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Have to share this gem from...
Halliday M.A.K. (1984). Linguistics in the University: The Question of Social
Accountability. In J. E. Copeland (Ed.). New directions in linguistics and
semiotics. John Benjamins
[cid:ii_18dce069b87692e331]
Love the analogy with social acts or value judgements representing culture
David