Yeah, hot nozzholes.
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 3:29 PM Anthony Cesaroni <anthony@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I was fortunate enough to be invited for lunch in the Senate dining room
once and was introduced to one of those “Utah lobbyists” by one of the
Senators. They prefer to be referred to as “Congressional representatives”
Ya right.
E-8 is definitely porn.
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
http://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
*From:* arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On
Behalf Of *ken mason
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:30 AM
*To:* arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [AR] Re: Latest Soyus start
Would of, could of, should of, always excuses for failure, bottom line
Saturn 5 had a 100% mission success rate and was just getting better with
time and
Apollo was a glorious success because it was superior, second to none, we
won!
Too bad the horrible decision was made to cancel the Saturn and not use it
as the Space Shuttle booster which was considered a mistake after the fact.
Lobbyist from Utah, perhaps part of it. Once again there's politics
superseding engineering, proven engineering.
Thinking about it makes me depressed and want to watch the E-8 camera
angle of a Saturn 5 lift off. Pure rocket porn.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 7:50 PM Henry Spencer <hspencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, roxanna Mason wrote:
Those aren't Mlbf engines -- each quartet is ~1MN, about
200klbf.
You made my point, they, Russians, couldn't make a single TCA MLbF
engine.
I think you've missed mine: at the time of the R-7, they weren't trying.
That's 200klbf from the four-chamber cluster, not from each chamber. And
it wasn't done because they couldn't build something bigger, given time
and effort, but because they were in a hurry.
Much bigger engines *did* follow. The RD-275 (Proton first stage) gave
390klbf from a single chamber, and the LOX/kerosene NK-33 350klbf -- quite
good enough to get to the Moon. Sure, you'd have needed ~20 of them to
match a Saturn V, but so what? Every Soyuz that lifts off has (counting
the verniers) 32 chambers firing at takeoff. Every Falcon Heavy has 27.
The idea that large clusters couldn't possibly be reliable was a *MYTH*.
All the money and agony that went into developing the F-1 was, in
hindsight, a waste -- gorgeous and glorious, yes, and hard to avoid with
what they knew at the time, but quite unnecessary in the end.
The N1 first stage was a disaster, yes, but not because it had a lot of
engines -- rather, because it was never ground-tested! Korolev was in a
hurry -- the Soviet manned-lunar program started years *after* Apollo --
and he never had Apollo's priority or blank-check budget, so he gambled on
not building a test stand big enough to fire an N1 first stage. And lost.
The F-1 instability was solved enough to complete the mission of landing
a man on the moon.
And the Soviet effort, without such an engine, despite starting three
years after Apollo and never being anywhere near as well funded, was only
a year or two behind until the lack of N1 first-stage testing started to
bite. Going to the Moon didn't require giant engines.
Henry
