[AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- From: Hagen Hübner <hagen.huebner@xxxxxx>
- To: arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 15:07:08 +0000
Terry, speaking of the library... work was done up to 15000 psi - with
interesting results:
https://www.eucass.eu/component/docindexer/?task=download&id=4434
(notice: 1kg/cm^2 = 0,981 bar = 14,2 psi)
Hagen
------ Originalnachricht ------
Von "Terry McCreary" <prfesser@xxxxxxxxxxx>
An "arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Datum 28.04.2023 14:32:41
Betreff [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
Kevin, I apologize for my earlier post. It was snide and uncalled for.
Now, to address your question: Aerotech has/had, somewhere on the web,
properties of their propellants. Some of them were extremely high
performance, highly aluminized mixes intended for commercial/military
use. You might check the propellant "sticks" they sell on
rocketmotorparts.com, see if properties are described there. However...
From earlier posts it sounds as though you want to work at extremely
high pressures, ten to thirty times those normally used in APCP motors.
The coefficient, exponent, etc. around 1000 psi is surely going to be
very different from those values at 30,000 psi. There may be some
plateau burning or some regions where the exponent decreases (ok) or
jumps dramatically (very bad), I don't know.
Moreover, there is a well-known problem with propellants containing a
large amount of 400 micron AP. Apparently at pressures around (I think)
1000psi or a bit higher, the 400 micron can crack, exposing more
surface area and leading to a rapid unscheduled disassembly. I
hypothesize that the same thing would occur to 200 micron (which makes
up most of the usual APCP) and even 90 micron, which is as fine as the
amateur can obtain without grinding, at the kind of pressures you're
considering. There's also the issue of the binder; that which works
well at 1000 psi is unlikely to be satisfactory at 10-30 times that
pressure.
There's an old tongue-in-cheek saying that my own research students
have heard: Six months in the laboratory will save you six hours in the
library. I don't know whether the professionals have done work with
APCP at very high pressures...but before attempting such work it would
be wise to find out what has already been done, and with what kind of
success. Unfortunately such work may be behind a paywall; that's how
most professional journals do it these days.
Before expending a single dollar or hour on propellant/motor making it
would be wise to find out if the kind of work you're considering is
even possible. There is some reason to think that it may not be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of kevin ward <kevinward46@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 11:17 PM
To:arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <arocket@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
Ap\htpb\+al (294isp, 70\13\12 ?)
I'm asking for any and all stats re open rocket
Ty kindly
- References:
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
- [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?
Other related posts:
- » [AR] APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Terry McCreary
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Terry McCreary
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- John DeMar
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- David Summers
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Matthew JL
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- George Herbert
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- kevin ward
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- jake
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Troy Prideaux
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- John Dom
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Troy Prideaux
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Troy Prideaux
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Henry Spencer
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- roxanna Mason
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Troy Prideaux
- » [AR] Re: APCP properties, was Re: Re: starship abort?- Ben Brockert