Lotte,
You sure? I only got the email on aodvv2-discuss, not the manet list…
Regards,
Stan
From: aodvv2-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:aodvv2-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lotte Steenbrink
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 10:28 AM
To: aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [aodvv2-discuss] Re: "Address meaning" TLV
Am 24.06.2015 um 12:53 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Attached are Section 8 and 12 based on the latest comments...
These can be sent to MANET if you like (I will let someone else do this to give
a chance to check it).
Done... Fingers crossed. :)
Kind regards,
Vicky.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Lotte,
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Vicky, hi all,
Am 24.06.2015 um 10:39 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi Lotte, everyone,
Also in response to Henning's comment about the word "optional" being included
in Section 8... e.g. in this bit:
| TargMetric | PATH_METRIC | MetricType | Metric for the route |
| /MetricType | | (optional) | to TargAddr, using |
| | | | MetricType. |
| ValidityTime | VALIDITY_TIME | 0 | ValidityTime for |
| (optional) | | | route to TargAddr. |
+--------------+---------------+------------+-----------------------+
...If we included the MetricType data element in our AODVv2 message, its not
optional to include it in the RFC5444 representation.
Same for ValidityTime. We've explained which data elements are optional in
Section 7, so should we simplify Section 8 by removing the word "optional"?
Good point! I'd say yes.
One adjacent thing though: Some subsections of Section 8 say:
In the AODVv2 representation, if the message relates to
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE, MetricType is not included in the message. The
RFC 5444<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5444> representation will set the
extension type in the
PATH_METRIC TLV to 0. AODVv2 interprets a MetricType of 0 as
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE.
But section 11.4 just says:
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------+
| Name | Default | Description |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------+
| DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE | 3 (i.e., Hop Count) |
[RFC6551<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6551>] |
Do we need to adjust the numbers/wording here to make our 0 ->
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE trick more clear here?
This is tricky. HopCount is always MetricType 3. But because it's our default,
we can omit it, which means RFC5444 effectively sets MetricType = 0, and might
report MetricType = zero to AODVv2 for a received message, which AODVv2 needs
to interpret as MetricType = DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE.
Should we say in 11.4...?:
"As described in Section 8, when using DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE, the MetricType data
element does not need to be included in AODVv2 messages. The absence of a
MetricType data element will be handled by RFC 5444 by reporting a MetricType
of zero. AODVv2 will interpret a MetricType of zero to be DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE."
Regards,
Vicky.
And the point about how to set values if you receive a message without certain
TLVs? I think this is covered already in Section 7.
In section 8 we've already explained for MetricType what happens if MetricType
wasnt included in the AODVv2 message. I've also included in each part of
Section 8 "If the prefix length has not been included in the AODVv2 message, it
is equal to the address length in bits."
For TargSeqNum in RREQ, ValidityTime, AckReq, PktSource, SeqNumList, do we need
any explanation for what it means if its not included? I think thats clear
enough from section 7.
I agree.
For MetricTypeList, if all metric types are default metric type, we wouldnt
include the PATH_METRIC TLV, but our section 8 seems to indicate that we would
include a PATH_METRIC TLV, and set extension type to 0 to indicate the default
metric. I might change this for the RERR section, to:
"In the AODVv2 representation, if the RERR message includes only routes with
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE, MetricType is not included in the message. The RFC 5444
representation does not need to include a PATH_METRIC TLV to indicate the
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE. If the RERR message contains a mixture of routes using
DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE and other metric types, only the routes with non-default
metric type need to be marked with a PATH_METRIC TLV to indicate the
MetricType. AODVv2 interprets an absence of MetricType information as an
indication of DEFAULT_METRIC_TYPE."
What do you think?
Sounds good to me.
Regards,
Lotte
Kind regards,
Vicky.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Am 24.06.2015 um 09:41 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
done :)
Thanks! :)
As discussed yesterday, I'll send our changes to the MANET list then, okay?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Vicky, hi all,
Am 23.06.2015 um 19:42 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi all,
Thanks so much Lotte!
I've replaced Section 8 in the draft and updated section 12 based on Lotte's
updates. Attached are the new section 8 and 12. I only had a very quick
proofread so I leave it with you guys.
two quibbles:
In Section 12.3., the Length of the new ADDRESS_TYPE TLV Type is specified as
“depends on contents”... Would it make sense to set this to 1 octet? I'd be
thrilled to see hundreds of different AODVv2 extensions which all need their
own Address Type, but I don't think it's very likely to happen...
Also, I noticed that Table 9 says Length (octets) and Table 10 says Length (and
then octets in the table when necessary), would it make sense to unify this by
moving the “octets” into the row of Table 10?
Regards,
Lotte
Kind regards,
Vicky.
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi all,
Vicky was so kind as to provide me with the pandoc for section 8, so attached
you'll find my modified version.
Additional changes we need to make are:
- 12.3. RFC 5444 Address Block TLV Types: add new entry for ADDRESS_TYPE
- 12.3. RFC 5444 Address Block TLV Types: remove entries for ORIG_SEQ_NUM and
TARG_SEQ_NUM
- add a table for all address type values:
Address Type Value
------------ -----
ADDR_TYPE_ORIG_ADDR 0
ADDR_TYPE_TARG_ADDR 1
ADDR_TYPE_UNREACHABLE 2
ADDR_TYPE_PKT_SRC 3
(I'm not quite happy with the naming, please change at will)
Regards,
Lotte
Am 23.06.2015 um 17:53 schrieb Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi Vicky,
Am 23.06.2015 um 17:51 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi all,
After our discussion with Henning, I have one small question - what name are we
going to use for this TLV?
"Address Meaning" isn't the best :) is "Address Type" better?
Sounds good to me, but I'm not a native speaker :)
Regards,
Lotte
Regards,
Vicky.
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Am 22.06.2015 um 18:33 schrieb Ratliff, Stanley
<sratliff@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:sratliff@xxxxxxxxxxx>>:
Yes.
Okay great. As a reminder; I've created the google hangout event for today, if
anyone didn't get an invite but wants to attend please ping me.
Stan
From:
aodvv2-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:aodvv2-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:aodvv2-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Victoria Mercieca
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 12:05 PM
To: aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [aodvv2-discuss] Re: "Address meaning" TLV
Yes :)
Vicky.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi all,
so Henning said Tuesday or Thursday at 5 our time (i.e. the usual time of our
hangouts) would be fine. I'd suggest meeting tomorrow to get the issue done as
soon as possible. Is everyone who is interested in the topic okay with this?
Cheers,
Lotte
Am 22.06.2015 um 16:56 schrieb Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
Am 22.06.2015 um 16:54 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
I have no problem with including Henning (though it is very short notice now!!)
I know, I thought I'd wait for answers and then totally forgot about it.. I'll
just ping him and see if he responds.
Vicky.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Am 21.06.2015 um 19:38 schrieb John Dowdell
<john.dowdell486@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:john.dowdell486@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hmm interesting.
Do we want to invite him to the call tomorrow?
So I'm assuming the answer is no?
John
________________________________
From: Lotte Steenbrink<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 21/06/2015 15:12
To: aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [aodvv2-discuss] Re: "Address meaning" TLV
Hi all,
just FYI: Henning just asked via chat if we wanted his input on the whole TLV
restructuring thing. I told him about Vickys idea for an Address Meaning TLV,
and he thought it was a good idea too– provided we don't leave the TLV empty
anywhere.
Regards,
Lotte
Am 17.06.2015 um 14:29 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi all,
Thanks for your comment Justin, sorry it took me a while to notice it!
Comments in line:
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 12:32 PM, bebemaster
<bebemaster@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bebemaster@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Sent on a Virgin Mobile Samsung Galaxy S® III
-------- Original message --------
From: Victoria Mercieca
Date:06/16/2015 3:20 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:aodvv2-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [aodvv2-discuss] Re: "Address meaning" TLV
Hi Lotte,
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Lotte Steenbrink
<lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lotte.steenbrink@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Vicky,
wow, that's a lot of e-mails in one afternoon :o Just two quick comments, then
I'll work my way through your tables...
Am 15.06.2015 um 19:13 schrieb Victoria Mercieca
<vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vmercieca0@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi all,
I dont know if you picked up on Chris Dearlove's comment on MANET a little
while ago? http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/manet/current/msg17669.html He
proposed some sort of TLV specifically used to indicate what the addresses
mean, using the idea in Appendix C2 of RFC5444. If we took that approach, we
could avoid needing separate TLVs for OrigSeqNum and TargSeqNum, we could even
use multi-value TLVs where we would have included 2 separate TLVs before. We
wouldnt need the PktSource TLV either.
I had a think about this idea... here's what I came up with. I'm sure I will
have made some mistakes so comments are welcome.
The "Address Meaning" TLV would have values defined, e.g. OrigAddr = 1,
TargAddr = 2, PktSource = 3, Unreachable Address = 4. Ideally "Unreachable
Address" would be the default value and we could omit it, avoiding the extra
length in RERR messages (maybe this means it should have the value 0 instead?).
So for a RREQ, there are 2 addresses in the Address Block, we'd have an
"Address Meaning" TLV with two values as Chris suggested, values being 1 and 2.
It doesnt need index values because its providing a list of values, one for
every address in the Address Block.
This could be the compromise we have been looking for... Charlie, What do you
think?
In a RERR, there may be a PktSource address and 'x' Unreachable Addresses. So
the "Address Meaning" TLV would have 1 value (ie value of 3 if using the values
defined above) with an index for the PktSource address. If we make unreachable
address the default, we can leave it at that. Alternatively, if it was
necessary to indicate unreachable addresses explicitly with the "meaning" value
defined above, the message could either have one "Address Meaning" multivalue
TLV with a list of values, 1 value for each address, or it may be more
efficient to have one "Address Meaning" TLV for PktSource, giving the meaning
value and index, and another "Address Meaning" TLV, with the value for
unreachable addresses, with index start and index stop? I guess the parser
would decide which way is more efficient.
I tried to look at how it would compare byte-wise.
TLVs have 1 byte for type, 1 byte for flags, 1 byte for length, potentially 1
for index, or 2 for index values if giving start and stop index values + more
bytes for the value field, size dependent on TLV type.
The "Address Meaning" TLV has: type + flags + length (3 bytes) + potentially 0,
1, or 2 bytes for index values, + 1 byte for each actual value. The options for
total length of this TLV are:
3 + num addresses
or 3 + index + value
or 3 + index start + index stop + value
For RERR, if unreachable address is the default, we could omit the "Address
Meaning" TLV. We would need it if there was a PktSource address included, and
it would need 1 value and an index value for it (total length = 3 + 1 byte for
value + 1 byte for index = 5 bytes).
But wouldn't we be back to the “no addresses without a TLV attached allowed”
discussion then?
That's true, hmm.... re-reading RFC5444 Appendix C2, it looks like we can omit
one value if it's the default, but if that is the only value we were including,
do we still have to include the TLV? Maybe we set no value in it? Do we need
index values?
You can omit a value, the tlv alone can impart positive information. If the
only value us the omitted value the tlv still need be attached to impart that
default information, just without a value field. If all addresses (in an
address block) have a default value no indexes are needed. So it depends on the
values to be attached to the addresses and how the address block is organized.
So... in the text below, the "Address Meaning" TLV has a total length of 3 for
RERR when there's no PktSource.
All existing seqnum TLVs have total length 6 when we include an index and a
value, or 4 if we just include an index and no value, i.e. if seqnum is
unknown. If we change to use "Address Meaning" TLV, we no longer need 3
different seqnum TLVs. We can use a generic seqnum TLV and include multiple
values in the one TLV if we know them, rather than use multiple TLV types to
hold one seqNum value each.
To compare the approaches (current = using a variety of TLVs to identify
addresses, proposed = using the "Address Meaning" TLV idea) and ignoring all
unchanged TLVs:
----------------------------------------------
RREQ
----------------------------------------------
current proposed
orig seq num tlv 6
targ seq num tlv 6 or 4
addr meaning tlv 5
seq num tlv (1value) 6 (type, length, flags, index, 2byte value)
seq num tlv (2values) 7 (type, length, flags, 4bytes containing 2 values)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
total
(no TargSeqNum value) 10 11
This could be more likely - if we dont know a previous seqnum for targaddr of a
rreq
(if TargSeqNum value) 12 12
This is the ideal case anyway to help out any nodes doing iRREP
----------------------------------------------
RREP
----------------------------------------------
current proposed
orig seq num tlv (no val) 4
targ seq num tlv 6
addr meaning tlv 5
seq num tlv (1val) 6 (type, length, flags, index, 2 byte value)
----------------------------------------------
total 10 11
Proposed version doesnt need OrigSeqNum TLV to indicate OrigAddr, doesnt need a
SeqNum value for OrigAddr at all.
----------------------------------------------
RERR with PktSource
----------------------------------------------
Assuming we have to identify unreachable addresses with a seqnum TLV, we would
set no value, but need index start and maybe index stop to identify
address(es), this gives 4 or 5 bytes.
current proposed
pktsrc 4 (type, length, flags, index)
seqnum (no val) 4 or 5 (type, length, flags, index
start, (index stop))
addr meaning tlv 5
If unreachable addr is seen as default and omitted, and index is included only
for pktsource.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
total 8 or 9 5
----------------------------------------------
RERR without PktSource
----------------------------------------------
Again, if we have to identify unreachable addresses with a seqnum TLV, we would
set no value, but need index start and maybe index stop to identify
address(es), this gives 4 or 5 bytes.
If only 1 address included, do we still need index?
current proposed
seqnum (no val) 4 or 5 (type flags length index
(index stop?))
0
Don't need an address meaning TLV if we have unreachable address as the default
value and it can be omitted.
We do need the address meaning TLV but it doesnt need value or index fields.
type flags length = 3 bytes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
total 4 or 5 0
For future extensibility, we can define more values for the Address Meaning
TLV. Currently we'd need to define new TLVs (though they might be necessary
anyway depending on what the extension was trying to do).
What do you think? I'm sure I must have made mistakes?
Kind regards,
Vicky.
Regards,
Vicky.
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<AODVv2 RFC5444 Representation v2 (Replaces Draft 9 Sections 8 and 12)>
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