[aikavero] Re: Ehdotuksia miten jatketaan?
- From: Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@xxxxxx>
- To: aikavero@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:24:37 +0300
Ruby, all,
I think it would be excellent if Helsinki City could arrange a seminar around
its global responsibility strategy! Unfortunately I don't personally know
anyone (but Thomas who's already on this list) that I could suppose being able
to find the right people. Any suggestions how to put forward such a proposal?
--Pekka
On 2014–04–13, at 19:41 , Ruby van der Wekken <rubyvdwekken@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> A (very) late thank you for joining me to the list, Pekka!
> As Pekka already referred to, eventhough I should always be practising my
> Finnish, I will continue in English :)
>
> It was a pity I was not able to join for the seminar held, though ofcourse it
> was good to hear through Niklas and also Pekka about the seminar. We were in
> STAP glad this seminar was held!
>
> Thank you also for the reading list Pekka! I have read too little on the
> issues, whilst a few works mentioned by Pekka are familiar. However, besides
> for the concrete learning through our developing of Stadin Aikapankki, what
> for me have been particularly good learning instances has been the
> participating of a economy and commons conference in Berlin in May 2013, as
> well as the complementary currency conference last June 2013 in Holland. As
> the name has come up in the context of the seminar held, there I had among
> other the pleasure of meeting with Bernard Lietaer and having a substantial
> discussion with him on Stadin Aikapankki, which ofcourse was a privelege.
>
> At the moment of this writing, we are in Stadin Aikapankki preparing for a
> next membership meeting, in which we will be discussing regarding our next
> steps in this process around the issue of aikapankki and taxation. Niklas
> has told during the seminar about our internal tovivero - the currently few
> percentage timetax which is deducted from every tovi earned, and which
> members of aikapankki can put towards an economic actor participating in the
> timebank, and thus operating with a commitment to our values, see
> http://stadinaikapankki.wordpress.com/abc/
> As such, the internal timetax is a way to be strengthening ethical economic
> actors in our timebank, and to promote solidarity/new ecomy practices - all
> kind of new ways of building and cooperating through the timebank can
> potentially take form supported by the tax.
>
> In addition, I have come to understand this is importantly also a way to
> think of a democratising of the public. If we could imagine a city as
> Helsinki having its Globaali vastuu strategy document in which it has stated
> that “Sosiaalisen kestävyyden, kaupunkilaisten omaehtoisen elämän ja talouden
> vakauden edistämiseksi kaupunki selvittää, miten se voi tukea aikapankkien
> toimintaa.” ; if we could be coming to a pilot situation in which would be
> assessed
> - aikapankki and its ABC working, and in howfar this is producing hyvinvointi;
> - the workings of its internal tovitax which is put to ethical actors
> accepted onto the timebank (note, the issue of which ethical economic actors
> are accepted onto the timebank is an issue subject to peoples deliberation,
> and as such a difficult issue to reckon with in public policy, but an
> important feature of new economy building!)
> - and to then have a dialogue on the results of this assessment, concerning
> any adaptions or law changes necessary which would enalbe experiences like
> Stadin Aikapankki and its ABC to be carrying on,
> could that be a good way forward?
>
> But so, these are just some personal words here. As said, Stadin Aikapankki
> members are to discuss the issue, and following this idea is to retake
> contact with Helsinki City - and well, personally I am hoping a process can
> be set in place.
>
> A first step thought which has also arisen, is for whether or not the city
> could be organising a seminar, in wich decent time would be spent on really
> understanding the potential of aikapankki as a timebank, as a community
> complementary currency, and to address the issue of complementary timetax. It
> would then also be very possible to invite someone of our contacts to come
> over to reinforce this process. There are many related discussions going on
> globally; on complementary currencies and the issue of taxation, on the
> related issue of new economy building and on how to create place for this and
> support, also in terms of public policy. Different experiences and
> legislation exists, internationally each experience also seems to have run
> into its own issues, i.e. according to my knowledg there does not yet exist
> an optimal situation anywhere, in which it is fully possible for a
> complementary currency to pay taxes in the complementary currency (sometimes
> forinstance one can pay taxes in the complementary tax, but the tax is then
> converted into the national currency), and to in this way support new,
> ethical and participatory economy building according to peoples values, and
> with this enabling a democratising of the public.
>
> Well, this for now, a message which was long due from my side,
>
> All comments would be highly appreciated!
> And, after we have had our discussion in Stadin Aikapankki, and more
> developed our proposal, myself and Niklas can also be sharing more on this
> list.
>
> with kind regards,
> Ruby
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-03-04 18:23 GMT+02:00 Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@xxxxxx>:
> Tervehdys,
>
> Alla kirjalista jolla lähdimme liikkelle. Kahneman, Graeber, Lietaer ja
> Itäranta tulivat luettua.
>
> Kahneman on asiaa mutta ainakin minulle suurelta osalta tuttua. Graeberin
> olin lukenut muutama vuosi sitten, mutta sen uudelleen lukeminen ei ollut
> haitaksi. Lieaterin tämä teos on vähän pamflettimainen, ei niin vakuuttava
> kuin Future of Money. Itäranta on kevyt välipala, ihan hauska dystopia mutta
> näitä on muitakin, oleellisesti saman juonen olen mielestäni lukenut joskus
> aikaisemminkin, mutta en muista mistä. Itse luin lisäksi Restakisin, joka oli
> -- ahem -- mielenkiintoinen.
>
> http://www.lietaer.com/writings/books/the-future-of-money/
>
> Matkan varrella mukaan tuli sitten Jared Diamondin Collapse, jonka itse olin
> lukenut jo joitakin vuosia sitten. Jotkut lukivat Andersonin, jotkut eivät,
> Unger jäi käsittääkseni kaikilta lukematta.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book)
>
> --Pekka
>
> Alkuperäinen lista:
>
> Daniel Kahneman: Thinking, Fast and Slow
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
>
> David Graeber: Debt: The First 5000 Years
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years
>
> Bernard Lietaer: Money and Sustainability: The Missing Link
> http://www.triarchypress.com/pages/Money-and-Sustainability.htm
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer
>
> EMMI ITÄRANTA: Teemestarin kirja
> http://www.teos.fi/kirjat/kaikki/s2012/teemestarin-kirja.html
>
> John Restakis: Humanizing the Economy: Co-operatives in the Age of Capital
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanizing-Economy-Co-operatives-Environmental-Economics/dp/086571651X
> http://blogbusinessworld.blogspot.fi/2011/01/humanizing-economy-co-operatives-in-age.html
>
> Chris Andersson: Makers: The New Industrial Revolution
> http://www.makers-revolution.com/#2aa/custom_plain
>
> Roberto Mangabeira Unger: Politics: A Selection
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1859841317
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Mangabeira_Unger
> http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/unger/philosophy.php
>
>
> On 2014–03–04, at 12:54 , "Hiilamo, Heikki T" <heikki.hiilamo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > Hei!
> >
> > Kirjalista kiinnostaa kovasti, voisiko sen jakaa listalla?
> >
> > yst. Heikki Hiilamo
> >
> >
> > On Mar 3, 2014, at 6:00 PM, Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@xxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Listan luomisen jälkeen listalle on ilmoittautunut muutama uusi ihminen.
> >> Mutta hiljaista on ollut.
> >>
> >> Onkohan kenelläkään ehdotuksia, miten voisimme konkreettisesti jatkaa
> >> keskustelua? Olen edelleen itse motivoitunut ajamaan asioita siihen
> >> suuntaan, että veroja voisi maksaa paikalisvaluutoilla. En vain tiedä
> >> mitä voisin käytännössä tehdä asian edistämiseksi.
> >>
> >> --Pekka Nikander
> >>
> >> PS. At least one new list member can follow Finnish discussions, but may
> >> have problems in writing comprehendible Finnish. Therefore from now the
> >> list policy is to allow both Finnish and English, interchangeably, so that
> >> anyone can express their thoughts in a convenient enough language.
> >>
> >> PPS. Jos joku haluaa listan kaikista kirjoista, joita lukupiirissä
> >> luimme, laitan mieluusti listalle. Muutenkin voisi olla hyvä idea kertoa
> >> hyvistä kirjoista. Vai olisiko?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
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