I think it was on this list that someone was asking about a blind gardeners mailing list. This jogged my memory, as I'd tried to join the Smartgroups list before. It no longer seems to be listed on the Smartgroups site. The good news is that there is one on Yahoo! Send a blank e-mail to blind-gardener-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx If you can cope with Yahoo's visual verification you could go directly to the group's site at http://goups.yahoo.com/group/blind-gardener/ Vince.