[C] [Wittrs] Digest Number 75

  • From: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: 16 Dec 2009 10:43:53 -0000

Title: WittrsAMR

Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

1a.
Wittgensteinian irony From: michael
1b.
Re: Wittgensteinian irony From: michael
2a.
Re: The Referent of 'I' From: Cayuse
2b.
The Referent of 'I' From: Joseph Polanik
3a.
Re: Wittgenstein and last names From: iro3isdx
4.1.
Re: Dehane a physicalist? From: BruceD

Messages

1a.

Wittgensteinian irony

Posted by: "michael" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:16 am (PST)





Wittgenstein refuted his picture theory (correspondence theory of truth) of language to create word games with the slogan "meaning is use". It is only in the way we use propositions that we have statements that may be true or false. with this exception W theory has no relevance to truth or philosophy because or philosopohical propositions by definition are either true or false. explanations, commands, statements have nothing to do with philosophy.

W refutation of the picture theory of truth infers that theories including W theory can in no way be about facts in the world because language does not capture facts. Therfore everything by W criterion can neither be called true or false and is meaningless 8o
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1b.

Re: Wittgensteinian irony

Posted by: "michael" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:38 am (PST)





Do family resembelences correspond or in some way it is possible that they are rigid designators?

Q. what did W have at his communion?
A. fruitcake!

Q. what did the religious fruitcake say to W?
A. wheres your ngavel!

Does a wittgensteinian have a family resembelence with wittgenstein?
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2a.

Re: The Referent of 'I'

Posted by: "Cayuse" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:24 am (PST)



Joseph Polanik wrote:
> Cayuse wrote:
>> Joseph Polanik wrote:
>>> Cayuse wrote:
>>>> As I maintained, and as Anscombe also points out, the word "I"
>>>> pertains to the physical organism, and "the (deeply rooted)
>>>> illusion" of a "subject of experience" has no application,
>>>> kimosabe!
>
>>> Anscombe specifically reject the claim that the referent of 'I' is
>>> the human body. she holds that the referent of 'I' is the human
>>> person that uses it.
>
>> When was the last time you heard a corpse make a reference to itself?
>
> focus! Cayuse.
> Anscombe is distinguishing the human person from the human body,
> just as LW distinguished the human being from the human body.

Focus, Joe! Dead men don't speak!
The word "I" pertains to the physical organism *that is using it*.

>>> in any case, whether you hold that the referent of 'I' is the body
>>> or the person, you've adopted a claim that LW rejects "The
>>> philosophical self is not the human being, not the human body ..."
>
>> "... but rather the metaphysical subject, the limit of the world --
>> not a part of it."
>
> so far, so good. the philosophical self is the metaphysical subject.
>
>> And it is precisely this use of the word "self" that has no
>> application.
>
> look again.
> LW is applying the word 'self' right before your very eyes.

Having an application means more than just being able to construct
a sentence with a word, it means that the sentence so constructed does
useful work in the world rather than being like an engine idling (132).
Otherwise it is nothing more than a disconnected wheel (271), or an empty
loom (414), as is the case with so much of what passes for "philosophy".

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2b.

The Referent of 'I'

Posted by: "Joseph Polanik" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:03 pm (PST)



Cayuse wrote:

>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>Cayuse wrote:

>>>Joseph Polanik wrote:

>>>>Cayuse wrote:

>The word "I" pertains to the physical organism *that is using it*.

the word 'I' is a syntactic device by which its user self-references.
your belief that 'I' always self-references the physical organism is
untenable. not all people use it that way.

>>>>in any case, whether you hold that the referent of 'I' is the body
>>>>or the person, you've adopted a claim that LW rejects "The
>>>>philosophical self is not the human being, not the human body ..."

>>>"... but rather the metaphysical subject, the limit of the world --
>>>not a part of it."

>>so far, so good. the philosophical self is the metaphysical subject.

>>>And it is precisely this use of the word "self" that has no
>>>application.

>>look again. LW is applying the word 'self' right before your very
>>eyes.

>Having an application means more than just being able to construct a
>sentence with a word, it means that the sentence so constructed does
>useful work in the world

LW's application of 'self' usefully distinguishes a legitimate topic of
philosophical concern from what you are currently blathering about. the
experiencing I is a topic of philosophical concern the I that is just a
human body is not.

Joe

--

Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware

@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@
http://what-am-i.net
@^@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^@

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3a.

Re: Wittgenstein and last names

Posted by: "iro3isdx" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:12 am (PST)





--- In Wittrs@yahoogroups.com, Sean Wilson <whoooo26505@...> wrote:

> .. does anyone know why Wittgenstein always seemed to address people by their last names? I'm not refering to people he is most intimate with, but just in general. Other professors. Students. People he knew. He always seemed to refer to people as "r-r-r-Hussle" (Russell), Sraffa, Moore, etc. I assumed he did this when directly talking to them as well. Is this just a personality thing or is it something other Austrians would do?  

I think many Brits would have done the same thing in that era.

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4.1.

Re: Dehane a physicalist?

Posted by: "BruceD" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:49 pm (PST)



--- In Wittrs@yahoogroups.com, "SWM" <SWMirsky@...> wrote:

"Should Dehaene and company shut down because you cannot abide the
notion that brains produce consciousness while you yet have nothing
better to offer?"

Let's take it a piece at a time. I find Dehaene's work fantastic and
worthy of full support. But I'm not convinced that he means "brains
produce consciousness" in the sense that bones produce blood.

Excerpt of review

"The main thing Stanislas and his team noticed is that when neural
activity in the brain exceeds a particular communications threshold
across multiple brain areas, the brain enters a large-scale synchronous
state and consciousness appears. The researchers have also devised an
empirical test for the presence of consciousness and tested it on human
patients in coma, vegitative state, and locked-in syndrome. So far,
their test seems to reliably detect which patients have residual
consciousness."
*********************************************************************

To say: "Consciousness appears", when the brain enters a
Synchronous-State, is inconsistent with saying that the S-State causes
consciousness because the S-State is simultaneous with consciousness. It
is consistent with saying "with my brain I regain
consciousness, comparable to with my hands I play the piano.

On doing better.

Global Neuronal Workspace

Just like my desk top. Completely described on the physical level? Yes,
if you mean how these letters appear when I strike the keys. But No, if
you mean why this sequence of letters. To answer the latter question,
one must ask my intention.

D starts with my intention. The GNW is a tool, like my desk top. His
research makes more sense if thought of in terms of the instruments I
use to complete tasks.

bruce

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