[Wittrs] Re: When is "brain talk" really dualism?
- From: Rajasekhar Goteti <rgoteti@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 09:09:54 +0530 (IST)
Language is functioning over an interactive principle.Subject+object
=nomenclature.This triangle got subdevided to several branches.Human movement
is in between that triangle created otherwise known as space.Within that space
there is time.Within that time both name and its shape are moving again within
an interactive descipline.So word silence is the opposite of word noise.thank
you
sekhar
--- On Fri, 4/9/09, Cayuse <z.z7@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Cayuse <z.z7@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Wittrs] Re: When is "brain talk" really dualism?
To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, 4 September, 2009, 9:02 PM
swmaerske wrote:
> "Cayuse" wrote:
>> Stuart wrote:
>>> or as my roshi used to say, "just sit".
>>>
>>> But what can this last mean?
>>>
>>> Well it cannot mean that "all" paths are correct can it?
>>> What if we don't "just sit"? What if we follow a path of words
>>> and dispute about things where we already agree words have
>>> no purchase? Is such a path equal to a path which gives up that
>>> notion? Can we reach enlightenment by doing the very things
>>> which lead us into illusion? Is no path a wrong path even if there
>>> is more than one "right path"?
>>
>> Good questions. I think it is as misconceived to think that all
>> paths are right as it is to think that there is only one true path.
>> I think the answer lies in the term "pathless path", that is, in
>> that the whole idea of a path is misconceived.
>
> But you introduced the idea of a "path" not I. If it's misconceived,
> why bring it up?
Because I regard "just sitting" as a path.
>> If enlightenment means the extinguishing of the idea of "being the
>> subject", then who is it that "achieves" enlightenment? There was
>> never anybody "on the path" and therefore there never was a path.
>> But this won't be understood as long as the idea of "being the
>> subject" has a firm hold, and as long as that hold entails the
>> search for gain in the idea of "enlightenment". Seeking demands a
>> seeker.
>
> If you're not seeking why the "consternation" you mentioned previously
Consternation arises. Seeking may or may not follow.
> and why do you keep pursuing this debate in an effort to
> link my use of "subjective experience" with yours?
If you can entirely divorce your use of the term "subjective experience"
from Nagel's use of the term "consciousness" then please go ahead.
> If there's nothing to seek, why seek it?
What makes you think I'm seeking it?
>> Enlightenment would then entail the realization that there never was
>> a seeker, nor anything to be sought -- what was sought was always
>> already the case. No "new knowledge" is gained, but rather something
>> is lost -- the idea of "being the subject". The ox-herder realizes,
>> while searching for an ox, that he has been riding an ox in pursuit
>> of that goal, all the time he was engaged in that search. The whole
>> idea of a path, or a "method", was nonsense, and is jettisoned when
>> that realization obtains ("he must, so to speak, throw away the
>> ladder after he has climbed up it"). The self cannot bring about
>> this change, since there isn't one. So just sit.
>
> Well said. Let's sit then and dismiss these silly lists and the
> discussions carried on on them!
Why bother sitting?
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