Bob makes some very good points. Genetics, as I indicated in the earlier post, is a problem relative to introgression with domestics. Also, certainly genetics may play some role in smaller more isolated populations although data to date would suggest they become extinct before any significant reduction in genes occurs. However, IF we assumed that we had a place where sufficient habitat was available to sustain a sizeable population the problems would be: 1. all work to date with using wild transplants indicates that in any given area it requires literally releases of thousands of bobwhites to achieve success. We simply do not have enough places left in TN where the thousands can come from except the chicken coops at Ames or other commercial breeders of domestics. Won't solve our problem at all. 2. Bobwhites are on the decline everywhere and even where the thousands of birds could be had (KS, NE, TX, OK), there's no way they will let us have them. AT ANY COST. Roger D. Applegate Small Game Coordinator Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Ellington Agricultural Center PO Box 40747 Nashville, TN 37204 PH: 615/781-6616 FAX: 615/781-6654 Email: roger.applegate@xxxxxxxxxxx UPS Address: 440 Hogan Road Nashville, TN 37220 FedEx Address: 5107 Edmonson Pike Nashville, TN 37211 >>> "Bob Hatcher" <hatcher2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 01/20/09 6:47 PM >>> Fellow Tennessee Birders, Thanks for all the discussions concerning the alarming decline of Northern Bobwhites in Tennessee and elsewhere. I believe many factors have been correctly described. I am not a bobwhite expert, but it sometimes pays to "think outside the box" of the conventional wisdom of any specialty. I have wondered for several years if we have reached a point where lack of genetic diversity has become another serious factor, and possibly the most delimiting one of all in the decline of bobwhites. By the early 1980's, we at TWRA's Endangered Species program were quite concerned that Red-cockaded Woodpecker (RCW) colonies had already reached alarmingly low populations. Loss of habitat was considered the major cause of their decline. The RCW experts advised at a Southeastern RCW conference that RCW populations are considered "past the point of no return" whenever local colonies contain less than about 50 individuals. This was stated to be due to in-breeding and resulting lack of genetic diversity in smaller populations. Like bobwhites, RCW's are not migrants and therefore have little or no opportunity for genetic mixing with more distant populations. We therefore sought to transfer RCW's from more higher populations in other states. All potential recipient sites were rated on the basis of likely success. Tennessee's habitat was not rated as highly as that of other states. Finally, the US Fish and Wildlife Service yielded to pressure from a conservation organizat ion. Two female RCW's were then transplanted, one at a time, from the Florida Panhandle to Tennessee's last dwindling RCW population on U.S. Forest lands of Polk County, TN. Each successive transplant was unsuccessful, and Tennessee's last lonely male RCW was last seen there in December of 1994. It has been repeatedly shown that pen-raised bobwhites have only short-term survival in the wild. However, it seems to me that it would be worth exchanging significant number of transplants from different states and/or areas to determine if the bobwhite off-spring might develop greater genetic diversity and demonstrate better survival than other populations. I have discussed this to a limited degree with bobwhite biologists and understand that bobwhite researchers have considered genetic diversity to be a possible factor. Perhaps such research is already proposed or underway. In any case, I hope that significant transplants can be interchanged at enough sites that the relative survival of transplant and non-transplant sites can be statistically analyzed. I believe it also desirable that hunting be permitted and prohibited on an equally large number of these research areas until the results can be statistically analyzed. I recommend that this approach be given serious co nsideration by bobwhite researchers and managers, with implementation before our bobwhites follow the example of our last lonely RCW. Bob Hatcher Eagle Consultant, American Eagle Foundation, and Retired Nongame and Endangered Wildlife Coordinator (1978-2001), Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Brentwood, TN =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to SIGN YOUR MESSAGE with first and last name, CITY (TOWN) and state abbreviation. You are also required to list the COUNTY in which the birds you report were seen. The actual DATE OF OBSERVATION should appear in the first paragraph. _____________________________________________________________ To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx _____________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. ______________________________________________________________ TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s) endorse the views or opinions expressed by the members of this discussion group. Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Assistant Moderator Andy Jones Cleveland, OH ------------------------------- Assistant Moderator Dave Worley Rosedale, VA __________________________________________________________ Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ARCHIVES TN-Bird Net Archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/tn-bird/ MAP RESOURCES Tenn.Counties Map at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/tennessee3.gif Aerial photos to complement google maps http://local.live.com _____________________________________________________________ =================NOTES TO SUBSCRIBER===================== The TN-Bird Net requires you to SIGN YOUR MESSAGE with first and last name, CITY (TOWN) and state abbreviation. You are also required to list the COUNTY in which the birds you report were seen. The actual DATE OF OBSERVATION should appear in the first paragraph. _____________________________________________________________ To post to this mailing list, simply send email to: tn-bird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx _____________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, send email to: tn-bird-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field. ______________________________________________________________ TN-Bird Net is owned by the Tennessee Ornithological Society Neither the society(TOS) nor its moderator(s) endorse the views or opinions expressed by the members of this discussion group. Moderator: Wallace Coffey, Bristol, TN wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Assistant Moderator Andy Jones Cleveland, OH ------------------------------- Assistant Moderator Dave Worley Rosedale, VA __________________________________________________________ Visit the Tennessee Ornithological Society web site at http://www.tnbirds.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ARCHIVES TN-Bird Net Archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/tn-bird/ MAP RESOURCES Tenn.Counties Map at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/states/tennessee3.gif Aerial photos to complement google maps http://local.live.com _____________________________________________________________