Hi there Brian I would disagree that virtual anything can never be as good as the real thing. In fact I think VMware ESX-based anything can be quite a bit better than the real thing _BUT_ you need to have a good understanding of your workload and usage patterns (sound familiar anyone?). Hardware-cost and form-factor are trivial expenses compared to the overall TCO or $$$ impact of downtime. I've seen scenarios where the vendor, with a minimum of troubleshooting or problem isolation, pointed the finger at VMware. After further investigation we were able to determine that the issue was actually the application or the OS and it was only exposed or magnified by running on VMware. VMware will not give you something for nothing. It is absolutely key that you understand what you have and where you need to get to and then plan and build it accordingly. _____ From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RMC - Brian Hill Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX Server I've never been a fan of VMs in the production environment. I have used them for development a few times, but even then, I prefer a "real world" scenario for development as well. I've had DC's that were flaky, with the only variable being VMWare. Dunno, maybe it's just me. Hardware cost are relatively cheap these days, the form-factor is small, so I don't think VMs buy you a whole lot. They have their place I suppose, but they are not something I pursue. Virtual "anything" can never be as good as the real thing IMO. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Hooper [mailto:jennifer.hooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:23 PM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] VMWare ESX Server Hi Guys - Here's the situation. We are about 1/4th of the way through converting our production data center (full of old, out of warranty Compaq servers) to IBM BladeCenters running VMWare ESX Server 2.0 (I think... whatever the latest version is). We use Platespin to convert the physical server to the VMWare image and move it over to the Blade it's going to live on. Right now, we have an average 5 servers per blade planned, and several have already moved over, because the hardware failed that they were on. However, some of the application folks are uncomfortable with this solution, not so much the Blade technology, as the VM technology. Needless to say, we're already experiencing failures, and stuff not running right - performance issues, network issues, etc. (Can you believe that they are going to run our Root Domain Controllers on this?) I have already experienced a drag on one of my Citrix servers that moved to virtual space, and can't fix it up. So what I would like to do before things get too much more hairy, is to try to find out what the success rate of running something like this in production, and if there are a lot of people out there doing this. Feel free to share with me any nightmare stories too! :) Thanks much! Jen Jennifer Hooper Peregrine Systems, Inc. Sr. Network Engineer mailto:jennifer.hooper@xxxxxxxxxxxxx