[THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading (& per processor licensing)
- From: "Tim Mangan" <tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:40:33 -0400
The vendor should help you out if their software does not detect
"correctly". I have heard of an instance where the vendor did require
purchase of the update to the latest version since they had fixed it there.
Per processor licensing is an interesting question, however. Microsoft set
the lead in deciding that their licensing referred to physical processors,
and I have not heard of anyone else deciding differently -- at least not
yet. The technology of what is separate and what is shared within that chip
is quite complicated, and not necessarily anticipated by those writing the
licensing provisions of software products. We will probably see a vendor
somewhere that will take the alternative stance, drawing the entire wrath of
the user community.
Over time the distinction will likely become more complicated since Intel
will probably advance the technology further. Diminishing gains would
probably prevent more than two logical per physical, but it is getting
harder and harder to decide just when an instruction is truly being executed
inside today's microprocessor due to the myriad of microinstructions
required. But public opinion does count (if one votes with purchasing
dollars), and I think that we will find that ISVs will generally follow the
Microsoft lead.
tim
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Bernd Harzog
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:29 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading (& per processor licensing)
Hi Mark,
It depends upon whether or not the product you are licensing is smart
enough to query the chip itself, or if it relies upon the OS to tell it
how many CPU's are in the server, and which OS you are running. If you
turn Hyperthreading on with WNT or W2K, the OS thinks that a dual has
four CPU's, and if you use a software product that relies upon the OS,
you will have to buy licensing for a quad. This is fixed in Windows
Server 2003 (a dual with hyperthreading is reported as a dual not a
quad)
Since we license TScale by the CPU, we had to write our own code in
TScale 1.5 that queried the chip, since relying upon the OS was causing
us to give the wrong answer to the customer.
Cheers,
Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software
678-455-5506 x701
bernd@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.rtosoft.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lee [mailto:marklee15@xxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:06 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading (& per processor
licensing)
True, but the OS reports 4 CPU's so will this fool SQL into thinking
it's got a 4way system ?
Ruben Spruijt <Ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi,
Physically you have two CPU's in this server so SQL licensing should be
for two CPU's
With regards,
Ruben Spruijt
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Mark Lee [mailto:marklee15@xxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Verzonden: woensdag 4 juni 2003 10:18
Aan: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading (& per processor licensing)
Just to add to the debate, we're planning to run a SQL box with
(HyperThreading enabled) so it's showing 4 CPU's when in reality there
are only 2 physical ones - so the question do we license SQL server for
2 or 4 processors ?????
=3D20
Tim Mangan wrote:
I interpreted that to mean server forms of 2000 also. From the testing I
have done I doubt that anything terribly wrong happens because of
HyperThreading -- it's just a question of what is more efficient for how
you
use the server. Here I am not talking about peak load, but about average
response time.
It's possible I might drop back to the 2000 server to run some tests
there -- I don't know yet.
tim
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Brian Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:11 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading
This article specifies "desktops". Did you find anything specific to
"server"?
Microsoft* Windows* Operating System Desktop Based PCs
I know the article references Windows 2000 (All Versions) but seems to
be
indicating P4 based desktop machines.
I would be interested to see if there are any known issues with the Xeon
processor based server models and Citrix Metaframe (Windows 2000
Server).
-Murphy
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Mangan [mailto:tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:32 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading
Ron,
My bad - sorry. http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm
So far my testing indicates that lightly loaded servers perform better
with
it turned off, heavily loaded servers with it turned on. The OS gets
fooled
into loading up logical processors on the same physical processor
sometimes.
When I'm done I'll be getting this written up with the details.
If you have a handy link to the HP docs, please send. I'll search for it
if
you don't.
tim
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:08 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT?: HyperThreading
Hey Tim, that link goes no where.
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
=3D3D20
RapidApp
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Mangan [mailto:tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 5:54 AM
To: Thin@Freelists. Org
Subject: [THIN] OT?: HyperThreading
> I know we had a discussion on this a while back. Someone indicated M$
> folks were recommending disabling it in servers but didn't say why.
Ran
> across this link over the weekend. Basically, Intel suggests
disabling
> HyperThreading on all WIn2K, NT, and prior operating systems. =3D3D20 =
=3D
=3D3D20
> http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht.os.htm
>=3D3D20
> I'm running tests against Server 2003/TS now. I suspect you may want
to
> disable it on 2003, depending on how you use the system. Nothing bad
> happens, but performance will be better in some cases with it turned
off,
> some cases with it on. Has anyone seen anything written up about
this?
>=3D3D20
> Timothy R. Mangan
> Founder TMurgent Technologies
> tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> www.tmurgent.com
> +1 781-492-0403
>=3D3D20
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