[texbirds] Re: Sunset Cemetery
- From: Brush Freeman <brushfreeman@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ronniekramer1964@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:35:47 -0500
I see the amendment was made in 2009...I would not be surprised if this was
not the result of the terrible vandalism that occured at Fairview Cemetery,
in Bastrop . one of the oldest in the state (1830)...Here several Texas War
for Independence vets, early settlers, that numerous counties were named
after as well as early senators and even a former Texas Governor (Sayers)
are planted...The vandals did a real job knocking many old headstones apart
kicking over many others shattering the marble ones to pieces...It took a
long effort by many folks to restore most of these but those will never
look the same again.
Brush
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Ronnie Kramer <ronniekramer1964@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> A Cemetery Organization (several types) may indeed restrict the use of the
> cemetery grounds in Texas. At least to activity, they can impose almost
> any restriction, e.g. no birding allowed or no stone rubbing. However this
> must be in the so stated in the organizations rules.
> Cemeteries without public ingress may also restrict the time that
> legitimate visitors may visit the cemetery. Note that visitiation rights
> apply only "for purposes usually associated with cemetery visits," and
> "during the hours determined by the owner..." While you and I may
> associate cemeteries with biding, I think I can confidently state that most
> people do not consider birding to be a normal purpose of a cemetery.
>
> The only garanteed right to access to a cemetery is if you have ancestors
> buried there, your purpose is to visit those ancestors, and you provide the
> owner a 14 day advance notice of your visit.
>
> I'm not saing all this applies at Sunset. I do not know the specifics at
> that property.
>
> The following is from The Texs Health & Safety Code.
>
>
> *Sec. 711.041. ACCESS TO CEMETERY. (a) Any person who wishes to visit a
> cemetery or private burial grounds for which no public ingress or egress is
> available shall have the right to reasonable ingress and egress for the
> purpose of visiting the cemetery or private burial grounds. This right of
> access extends only to visitation during the hours determined by the owner
> or owners of the lands under Subsection (b) or at a reasonable time as
> provided by Subsection (c) and only for purposes usually associated with
> cemetery visits.(b) The owner or owners of the lands surrounding the
> cemetery or private burial grounds may designate the routes of reasonable
> ingress and egress and reasonable hours of availability.(c) At a time
> other than the time provided by Subsection (b), the owner or owners of the
> lands surrounding a cemetery or private burial grounds must allow a person
> to enter and exit the owner's land for the purpose of visiting the cemetery
> or private burial grounds if:(1) the person provides written notice to the
> owner or owners of the lands surrounding the cemetery or private burial
> grounds of the person's visit;(2) the person provides the notice required
> by Subdivision (1) not later than the 14th day before the date the person
> wishes to visit the cemetery; and(3) the time of the visit is reasonable.*
> * *
>
> *Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 634, Sec. 22, eff. Sept. 1,
> 1993.Amended by: Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 263, Sec. 7, eff.
> September 1, 2009.*
> * *
>
> * *
> * *
>
> *Sec. 711.031. RULES; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) A cemetery organization may
> adopt and enforce rules:(1) concerning the use, care, control, management,
> restriction, and protection of the cemetery operated by the cemetery
> organization;(2) to restrict the use of cemetery property;ÐÐ.(7) to
> regulate the conduct of persons on cemetery property and to prevent
> improper meetings at the cemetery; Ð..*
> * *
>
> *Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Amended by
> Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 634, Sec. 11, eff. Sept. 1, 1993.*
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Joseph Kennedy <josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > It is designated by the state as a birding site as state law says it can
> be
> > a birding site. Any cemetary whether public or privated is open to all
> > including those wishing to have a picnic on the day of the dead.
> > Or inspect historic gravestones. It can be wrong to make rubbings if you
> > transfer ink to the headstone but non-marking methods can be done
> anywhere
> > at anytime.
> >
> > I am not sure what the county means by "private cemetary" as it does not
> > agree with Texas law. Almost every cemetary in the state and country is
> > private and owned by church associations, masonic groups, for profit
> groups
> > etc. They are all privately owned; public cemetaries are normally
> > charitable or municipal cemetaries and are also really private as they
> are
> > owned by the city etc.
> >
> > The only truly private cemetaries would those where a rancher's family is
> > buried back in the oak grove. Even in that case any family member etc
> must
> > have perpetual access after the ranch is sold or even subdivided. There
> is
> > much trouble involved if anyone wants to move the bones at a later date.
> >
> > This has been a problem in many parts of the country and has always been
> > resolved in favor of the public. The people claiming privacy usually have
> > other bones to pick including a california gentleman who was illegally
> > trapping endanged species of lizards that sat on the gravestones.
> Visitors
> > who came to see the lizards would be of great risk to the cemetary
> guardian
> > who was arrested.
> >
> > Perhaps a copy of the texas statute could be explained by the
> commissioner
> > if he actually read it and had the papers from the cemetary that stated
> why
> > that cemetary was exempt from the law.
> >
> > The problem is identical with public access to texas beaches which have
> > guaranteed access but beachfront owners not wanting anyone on "their"
> > private beach.
> >
> > Access must be given and it is no ones business what a person does on the
> > cemetary grounds or beach as long as the activity is not illegal.
> >
> > there is a whole series of posting here with nasty people claiming public
> > roads cannot be birded, you cannot stop and look at my field, the public
> > does not have access to a wildlife area, etc. Where the deputy is a
> cousin
> > on the complainant or the complainant waves a gun, there may be some
> right
> > of possession but only that which grows out of the barrel of the gun. You
> > can go up the local food chain but make sure that your insurance, car
> > inspection sticker etc are current and no lights are burned out.
> >
> > But practically you have to be willing to put up with some annoyance to
> > push the issue. As an old cemetary walker for birds or history, I never
> > really had a problem if I was polite and courteous. And you make friends
> > and find really good places. Long ago I was given access to a marvelous
> old
> > native pecan grove and did some study at the library and found the Moses
> > Austin may have helped plant the original trees or their ancestors. Had a
> > great picnic there with the owners family when I gave him copies of the
> > papers and then saw the old cemetary that no one else knew existed.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:48 PM, melissa isom <isommelissa@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all;
> > > I had gotten the name and number of the president of the Sunset
> Cemetery
> > > from the county commissioner. I gave him a call and asked about what
> > > had been going on concerning the birders. He said that it is a private
> > > cemetery and that he had no idea how or why it was designated by
> > > the Texas Parks and Wildlife as a birding site. He said that they do
> > > not want the public in there birding because people were parking on
> > > the grave sites and they are also concerned about liability. They had
> > > recently found underground hornets nest. He suggested that birders
> > > go in the fish hatchery (next door) if they want to bird.
> > > Don't kill the messenger. I have enjoyed birding at the cemetery many
> > > times.
> > > Melissa Isom
> > > Ingram, Texas
> > > Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> > > //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
> > >
> > > Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking
> > permission
> > > from the List Owner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joseph C. Kennedy
> > on Buffalo Bayou in West Houston
> > Josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
> >
> > Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking
> permission
> > from the List Owner
> >
> >
> >
>
> Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
>
> Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
> from the List Owner
>
>
>
--
Brush Freeman
361-655-7641 Cell
http://texasnaturenotes.blogspot.com/
Finca Alacranes., Utley,Texas
Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
//www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
from the List Owner
Other related posts:
