[texbirds] Re: Meadowlark ID in the RGV
- From: Joseph Kennedy <josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Jim Sinclair <jim.sinclair@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 12:26:19 -0600
Cross breeding is not as likely a reason for cross singing as the
meadowlarks may simply learn the wrong song.
Way back in 1958? when I was the host of the AOU convention and got to run
the projectors, Lanyon gave his first presentation on meadowlark song. He
had a long film showing how the young birds learn the song of the
first/loudest male in the area even if it is the song of the wrong species.
They removed male eastern meadowlarks and let hatching young hear the songs
of western males and voila, the young easterns sang western. And vice versa.
This was a monumental undertaking in those days with very large movie
cameras taken into the field to record experiments whereas now anybody with
a phone can do most of the technical work. Lanyon did what Disney did in
the very first nature films from the studio without the resources
of Disney. The study eventually gave rise to a whole course of study of
nature vs. nurture in birds.
Lanyon's work has expanded today where most sub-oscine songbirds are shown
to learn songs but inherit call notes. Other bird species generally inherit
songs and calls. So, chut vs dzzrt is distinct as to species unless of
course there is hybridization involved. Or Arizona birds come east.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Jim Sinclair <jim.sinclair@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> There is another issue, as well. Perhaps Glenn Perrigo will chime in, but
> a few years back he watched a bird singing a perfect Eastern song, then
> switching to a perfect Western song (or vice versa?).
> I (and others) have long suspected that there is probably a lot more
> hybridization going on that has not yet been documented. As most here
> know, the morphological characteristics are almost infinitely variable
> across the population.
>
> Those questions about differences regularly come up during guided tours.
> While there are some individuals that I am comfortable calling one way or
> the other based exclusively on morphological characteristics, there are
> others where I describe those characteristics as I see them, then tell the
> person, "It's your list.".
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Brush Freeman <brushfreeman@xxxxxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > along with some habitat preferences. Flock size seems to be an indicator
> > to me...The larger, in anticipated habitat, the more likely they are
> > Westerns. I am talking the coastal plain solely here, the two species
> seem
> > almost equally common at very near, to right on the coast and even on
> > Matagorda Is., in Calhoun, Refugio Co.s in winter. I recall confusing
> > western types, perhaps the "Lillian's well in Kenedy Co. WEMEs almost
> > always appear grayer in flight, at least to me, but I dread calling any
> > meadowlark without hearing it tho.....But there is a really big caveat
> > here....We have the Lilian's subspecies to contend with in Texas. I
> > believe John Arvin spent a good bit of time on meadowlarks and also
> > sometime around 1996-97 there was an very good article in North American
> > Birds primarily directed towards "Lillian's" but involving the EAMEs and
> > WEMEs...It may be archived in SORA. I would imagine you guys down
> there
> > could easily have "Lillian's" in winter as well as the nominates...But I
> > really don't know....My ears work better than my eyes with these
> > confounding animals.
> > **********************************************************************
> > Brush Freeman
> > 503-551-5150 Cell
> > http://texasnaturenotes.blogspot.com/
> > Finca Alacranes., Utley,Texas
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:20 AM, <antshrike1@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Here in the Rio Grande Valley it is commonly thought that meadowlarks
> > > occurring in pairs in coastal grasslands are all Eastern while flocks
> > > (sometimes large) occurring in barren fields are all Western. I've
> heard
> > > this theory espoused by some fairly big-brained birders. While I find
> > the
> > > former supposition to be mostly true, I think the latter is a lot more
> > > complicated. I seem to hear Eastern Meadowlarks singing everywhere and
> > > rarely hear a Western in song. I guess I need to learn the call notes.
> > > Here's a meadowlark from a flock of about 25 in a barren area south of
> > > Mission. I took the photo figuring I had my Hidalgo County Western
> > > Meadowlark for the year. But looking at the field guides, it seems to
> be
> > > an Eastern Do you agree?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/antshrike/rMealowlarkMissionBikePark1-23-14IMG_7331_zps8c5e0d05.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > So I guess my point is we (or at least "I") need to to be more careful
> > > about our meadowlark identification.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Jones, Weslaco
> > >
> > > Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> > > //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
> > >
> > > Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking
> > permission
> > > from the List Owner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
> >
> > Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking
> permission
> > from the List Owner
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Sinclair (TX-ESA)
> TOS Life Member
> Kingsville, TX
>
> "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
> thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein
>
>
> Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
> //www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
>
> Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
> from the List Owner
>
>
>
--
Joseph C. Kennedy
on Buffalo Bayou in West Houston
Josephkennedy36@xxxxxxxxx
Edit your Freelists account settings for TEXBIRDS at
//www.freelists.org/list/texbirds
Reposting of traffic from TEXBIRDS is prohibited without seeking permission
from the List Owner
Other related posts:
