[TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
- From: "teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:43:33 -0400
Fellow Tech's
The idea of a good Tech Site, is to share information. Some of us have seen
alot of Sony's...others have seen alot of Toshiba's...etc.
We share things with each other, that sometimes "Manufacturers" hold private
to ASC's..or have them pay big $$$ to aquire it.
Some of us have decided to keep databases on stuff we have worked on for
hours, lost money on the repair, and keeping these databases, can help
someone else out.
This is the the reason we are here. Give and Take.
So....let's stop the bickering...keep in mind..this is a Canadian view..eh?
-Ed-
.
Tel-Tek Electronics
Ontario-Canada
teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:06 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
>
> Perry,
>
> I never said that this was not an important topic. My point was that much
> of what you have been going on about was already answered in previous
posts
> and that you can get the information from Sony if you just use ESI and/or
> ask. As for non-ASCs, they should never have to deal with the problem as
> Sony has committed to replacing the CRTs under warranty. But if anyone
ever
> asks, they will get all of the information just like you did, noly the
> archives will be more cluttered than they needed to be because you didn't
> read the previous posts carefully.
>
> I do my best to help people and to provide information efficiently with
> regard for future techs researching each matter and try to make my posts
> meaningful and informative. I make a serious effort not to post before I
do
> my homework and post the results when I find something that others might
> find useful. I wish everyone else would do the same. Frankly, you could
> have found the information from the start on Sony ESI or with a search on
> Google as it has been "beaten to death" on alt.tv.tech.hdtv and on several
> forums that deal with HDTV.
>
> I will not post any more on the topic. I should have sent this response
to
> you personally, but I think that everyone should get the message that WE
CAN
> ALL be much more efficient with our posts and improve the quality of the
> list and its archives. Maybe we should start a new thread on using the
> archives, posting to make them more efficient, searching on the web for
> information before posting, paying attention to what has been posted, and
> using the tips on the techassist site.
>
> Leonard Caillouet
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:22 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
>
>
> >
> > Leonard:
> >
> > I am not beating anything. This is a very informative topic that many
have
> > thanked me privately for bringing up. Heck I am a Sony ASC and had not
> heard
> > of it. Imagine the non ASC's. That is what this forum is for. We go on
for
> > days on much less important topics. And you are going to complain of
this
> > very important topic. I have learned much on it and Sony has done the
> right
> > thing and adjusted our rate for these. I thank you Sony and my peers for
> > that. Without this talking that may have not happened, we will be on a
> > island. What about the cooling fan. I counted more threads on it. Then
it
> > changed to another subject. I only replied to your post replying to me,
> and
> > have not started a new post since this begun, only replied. If you are
> tired
> > of hearing it even though many are learning a great deal quit replying
> > because if you reply, you know someone will respond. I want to know of
> these
> > types of problems, I wish someone would have brought it up month's ago
so
> we
> > would all know. I will bet you that some poor sole will thank us for
this
> > discussion down the road when they face it. You can be assured if I know
> of
> > problems like this I will let my peers know well before someone has to
> ask.
> > At least that has been my history on all forums. I love to share to help
> my
> > peers, it makes me feel like James Brown, (Good).
> >
> > Perry
> > EM
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Leonard Caillouet
> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:00 PM
> > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> >
> >
> >
> > Perry,
> >
> > I mentioned in my first reply, as has someone else, that Sony is
extending
> > the warranty on the sets for this problem. They have been very
responsive
> > to taking care of the customers with this problem. The problem does not
> > usually show up until the set has operated for hundreds of hours. The
> > problem is also reported (by Sony) to go away eventually. Many
customers
> > have no problem or it is so minor that they do not notice it. The sets
> are
> > not being recalled but once again, Sony has committed to taking care of
> the
> > problem for those that it shows up on even after the warranty has
expired.
> > Again, the answers to your questions are in my first reply and published
> by
> > Sony, and everyone at Sony knows about it if you ask. Why are you
beating
> a
> > dead horse?
> >
> > Leonard Caillouet
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:25 PM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I don't know if many will get caught under "warranty",(some will)-
> > > especially if the problem was there to begin with. We have only had
two
> so
> > > far. One of my customers have had the set for almost a year before he
> > > noticed it. Now does something have to break in the set, or is it
> > flickering
> > > from the showroom floor? In our area with C.C. and Bestbuy they are
> > selling
> > > those sets like gas, they are everywhere. In fact, we have had some in
> for
> > > other problems that we have fixed for something else. I looked in
> > QuickBooks
> > > and found many of those models. I did not even know of this. Now if
Sony
> > is
> > > doing a recall, that is a different story, then I would say all might
> get
> > > caught. "IF" the problem is there to begin with, why is Sony waiting
for
> > > someone to complain? Just like the T.O.B. repair, these will show up
out
> > of
> > > warranty. Now some non ASC shop will have the knowledge to know what
to
> > do,
> > > I hope.
> > >
> > > Perry
> > > EM
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Myers
> > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 6:07 PM
> > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No need to worry about any non ASC's having to do this repair since
this
> > is
> > > not something that is going to go bad down the road, the problem is
> there
> > to
> > > begin with and all you need to know is the model and serial number to
> > > determine if the set has the problem. The only ones who may not be
taken
> > > care of under warranty by a Sony ASC would be the owner who did not
> > register
> > > the set and does not contact Sony about the problem. I think that
anyone
> > who
> > > owns one of these expensive sets will notice the flicker/hue problem
and
> > > contact Sony about it.
> > > **************************************************
> > > Jim Myers
> > > Since 1972
> > > Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> > > Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> > > *************************************************
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 4:27 PM
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Leonard and all:
> > >
> > > I know what I will get paid on a "Standard" CRT warranty job, as well
as
> > > what I get paid for a warranty tuner replacement. I also know how much
> > more
> > > maximum they will pay for this job, barely what I get for a 19". My
> point
> > is
> > > "Three" CRT's are far from standard. In my opinion "THREE" CRT's
> replaced
> > > under warranty and especially on a HDTV with many modes that customers
> > know
> > > you changed the tubes on and looking for perfection is "way" above and
> > > beyond the normal course of business and we should get three times
what
> we
> > > get for one. At least if this was a COD job, I would. You have to
admit
> > > replacing three CRT's is very unusual under warranty. I really just
ask
> to
> > > see if others have done this and to prepare non ASC's of the problem,
> and
> > > the way it looks from the tons of private replies many had not heard
of
> > it,
> > > and others have explained how they handled it, "Pro and Con". At least
> > this
> > > discussion helped me and others to better understand this problem that
> we
> > > will all see down the road.
> > >
> > > Perry Bower, (EHEER) Electronic Home Entertainment Equipment Repairer
> > > Electric Medic
> > > "It's Cheaper to Keep Her"
> > > http://www.electricmedic.com
> > > Free Electronic Screensaver:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.eyetide.com/download/?s=O3OfmSLHXygGHCv1W6Gz3Bgjtq3DNNMNdcKsYSVGC
> > > 3850 Washington Road Suite 5b
> > > Augusta, Georgia 30907
> > > Phone: 706-8MEDIC4 (863-3424)
> > > Phone: 706-863-3474
> > > Fax: 706-863-2316
> > > mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Leonard G.
> > > Caillouet
> > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:54 AM
> > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perry,
> > >
> > > I really don't understand why you are saying that you don't know how
> much
> > > you will be paid. What does your contract with Sony say? Why are you
> > > finding so much of a problem with this? If you are not happy doing
> > warranty
> > > work, don't take it. No doubt that you don't make out very well on
> these,
> > > but that is a fact of life as an ASC with everyone. Negotiate a
better
> > rate
> > > with Sony or drop them.
> > >
> > > I do no warranty work on any unit that we did not sell. I tell the
> > > manufacturers NO all of the time. It does not pay and I'm not going
to
> > > provide warranty service support to our competitors. If I were an
> > > independent servicer I would probably not do warranty work unless I
> could
> > > negotiate much better rates than most want to pay.
> > >
> > > Leonard G. Caillouet
> > > Service Manager
> > > Electronics World
> > > Gainesville, FL
> > > 352-332-5608
> > > 352-332-5668 (fax)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:36 PM
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Leonard:
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate that very informative reply. Yeah, I did not verify
> serial
> > > > number since we were told by the "SAYS" program to go ahead and
order
> > the
> > > > tubes. They must have already checked serial numbers from the
customer
> > and
> > > > by the specific complaint knew we have to do this job, but..I will
> > double
> > > > check. Do the tubes come as a complete assembly with all but yokes?
I
> > hope
> > > > fluid chambers and all are already installed. Still with all the
> > > > interruptions that we have during the day, and the time required to
> > change
> > > > three tubes and converge all modes on a Sony HDTV, I could probably
> fix
> > > > many, many COD sets and make 5 or 10 times the money. I just do not
> > think
> > > I
> > > > have had to change three tubes on a HDTV before knowing how little I
> > will
> > > > get paid. Plus, the problem is so intermittent, I may have to do all
> of
> > > this
> > > > without even seeing the problem first hand, and if we are putting
the
> > same
> > > > tubes in there will they do it again after hundreds of hours. This
> time
> > > the
> > > > customer will blame me after the warranty is gone. Plus, I will not
> even
> > > > know if I have done any good. I hate to tear down a set like this
that
> > is
> > > > playing so good at the time. It must be a coincidence that we have
had
> > two
> > > > this week, I was thinking that this was going to be a lot of sets
and
> > work
> > > > for little money.
> > > >
> > > > Perry Bower, (EHEER) Electronic Home Entertainment Equipment
Repairer
> > > > Electric Medic
> > > > "It's Cheaper to Keep Her"
> > > > http://www.electricmedic.com
> > > > 3850 Washington Road Suite 5b
> > > > Augusta, Georgia 30907
> > > > Phone: 706-8MEDIC4 (863-3424)
> > > > Phone: 706-863-3474
> > > > Fax: 706-863-2316
> > > > mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Leonard
Caillouet
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 7:48 PM
> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sony PTV Modifications
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perry,
> > > >
> > > > Read the bulletin carefully and verify the serial numbers are
covered
> by
> > > the
> > > > service bulletin. Sony had a batch of HD sets that have this
problem
> > and
> > > > the fix is to replace a couple of resistors and all three tubes.
> > > According
> > > > to Sony, the problem shows up after hundreds of hours of use and
will
> > > > eventually go away on sets that show the problem. They have
extended
> > the
> > > > warranty on all sets in the production runs affected. The initial
> > service
> > > > bulletin said to change the resistors only and changing the tubes
was
> a
> > > last
> > > > resort, but they found that it sid not always work and went to
> changing
> > > all
> > > > of the tubes. The problem affects only a few months of production
on
> > > > certain models and sets made after Dec 2002 should not need the mod
> and
> > > CRT
> > > > change, as I recall.
> > > >
> > > > If you have never done one before it will take 6-8 hours to replace
> the
> > > > tubes and do all of the alignments. After you do one or two you
> should
> > be
> > > > able to do it in about 3-4 hours.
> > > >
> > > > According to Sony tech reps, the problem is due to the higher beam
> > current
> > > > on the HD sets interacting with the type of impregnation in the
> > cathodes.
> > > > The resistors are in the beam current limiting circuit, as I was
told,
> > > > though I did not check. Interestingly, I have seen complaints from
> > > > customers on the HDTV newsgroups and forums of similar problems in
> > > Hitachi,
> > > > Toshiba, and Mitsubishi HD sets. I wonder if there is some common
> > thread.
> > > >
> > > > Leonard Caillouet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Electric Medic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 6:55 PM
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Sony PTV Modifications
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Speaking of Modifications. Have any of you had to do one of these.
> We
> > > just
> > > > > received two Sony "SAYS" faxes from customers this week that had a
> > > slight
> > > > > flickering in the picture and the tint is not quite right. We are
> told
> > > on
> > > > > the fax to perform a modification per a service bulletin, and they
> > gave
> > > us
> > > > > the service bulletin number. I looked up the bulletin and it says
to
> > buy
> > > > all
> > > > > three tubes and replace them, then buy a few parts for the chassis
> and
> > > > > replace them, all under warranty. I have not even gone to look at
> the
> > > sets
> > > > > yet, I hear from the customer they are very intermittent, maybe
> going
> > > for
> > > > > days without a problem. WOW, all three tubes. Does anyone know how
> > much
> > > > > money on our parts account and how many hours labor this is going
to
> > > take
> > > > to
> > > > > set up three tubes on a Sony PTV? The tubes are going to be over
> > $1000,
> > > > > labor may be 12 hours or more if the customers want perfection.
> Heck,
> > > just
> > > > > changing one tube is not fun especially if the customers are
already
> > > picky
> > > > > on the tint, they probably will not rest until the picture is
better
> > > than
> > > > it
> > > > > was when the set was new. Also, we are supposed to do this for a
> > > standard
> > > > > warranty repair, the same as replacing a tuner. Even if we can
> > negotiate
> > > > for
> > > > > more labor, this would cost a COD customer a fortune, how much
more
> > > would
> > > > > they pay us? I am told that all of these sets during this time
frame
> > > will
> > > > > have to have this done "IF" the customer complains. Man, I am
losing
> > > > before
> > > > > I start on these jobs. I understand there are tons of sets out
there
> > > that
> > > > > potentially this will have to be done, have any of you done this?
I
> am
> > > at
> > > > > home now and don't have the exact model series, but..I am sure
some
> of
> > > you
> > > > > have heard of this, if not I am sure you will soon. How are you
> going
> > to
> > > > > handle this? Seems to me they should field scrap the set for the
> > > customer
> > > > if
> > > > > they put the wrong tubes in them, or whatever they did wrong at
the
> > > plant.
> > > > > Servicers are going to be married to these and the Manufacturer
does
> > not
> > > > > have to deal with the customer and while they are under warranty
we
> > are
> > > > > going to lose money fixing them. I hate to see what happens when
you
> > > tell
> > > > a
> > > > > COD customer how much it will cost, they'll never approve these
> parts
> > > and
> > > > > labor. I know you are expected to lose on warranty a little and I
> knew
> > > > that
> > > > > going in, but three tubes on a modification???Comments welcomed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Perry Bower, (EHEER) Electronic Home Entertainment Equipment
> Repairer
> > > > > Electric Medic
> > > > > "It's Cheaper to Keep Her"
> > > > > http://www.electricmedic.com
> > > > > Free Electronic Screensaver:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.eyetide.com/download/?s=O3OfmSLHXygGHCv1W6Gz3Bgjtq3DNNMNdcKsYSVGC
> > > > > 3850 Washington Road Suite 5b
> > > > > Martinez, Georgia 30907
> > > > > Phone: 706-8MEDIC4 (863-3424)
> > > > > Phone: 706-863-3474
> > > > > Fax: 706-863-2316
> > > > > mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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