Attention DR, RR, JS, Pixiehat and anyone else
The devil is in the details, so kindly respond to the details and cut the
bullshit. Why would
Israel senselessly and stupidly risking the wrath of the U.S. government, a
devastatingly
counter attack and public opinion, so viciously attack the un-protected U.S.
flagged spy
ship SS Liberty in international waters but within monitoring range of tanks on
a battle field
and what was its mission in dangerous waters and why senselessly would planes
on the
way to rescue the Liberty be turned back and why was it senselessly agreed upon
and easily
disproved that it was merely a case of mistaken identity and then the theory
that Israel was
going to blame the Egyptians and why didn't the Egyptians demand that the
Liberty move out
since it might be helping Israel, and not a case of crazies in Washington
ordering the Liberty
to supply Egypt with Israely tank movements (and Israel may have a tape to
prove it but not
to be made public?) on the verge of a surpise attack to take over the Golan
Heights? Again,
respond to the details and cut the flag waving bullshit.
Stan the truth seeker even when risking being accused of being a disloyal
citizen
-----Original Message-----
From: schalestock <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 7:01 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Stan,
Am I missing something? You want the U.S. to ask forgiveness from Isreal for
them attacking a U.S. ship? Must be something wrong in your logic meds.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: pixiehat <pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 15:28:36 -0700
Stan, it doesn't seem strange at all. Why should the US seek forgiveness for
the war crimes committed by Israel? When you start making sense perhaps more
people will be paying attention to what you have to say.
Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Tablet
-------- Original message --------
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 06/02/2015 1:11 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Pixiehat
Doesn't it seem strange that the USA government didn't ask for forgiveness?
Remember
the saying that there is more to it then meets the eye? Are you afraid to look
below the surface?
You pay zero attention to what I have to say and 100% attention only to what
you say. Grow up
and listen to what the other guy says, that is normal.
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: pixiehat <pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 3:19 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Stan, I don't recall any "forgiveness " directed at Israel for their war
crimes. I most certainly didn't offer any. I would like to see Israel held
accountable for her actions. Something besides the arrogance that she offers in
abundance. Offering billion s of dollars in military aid simply doesn't cut
it.
Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Tablet
-------- Original message --------
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 06/02/2015 10:12 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Pixiehat
On the other hand you can conclude that Israel was stupid crazy and so was the
response
which went along with it and forgave them but not you.
Stanley
-----Original Message-----
From: pixiehat <pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jun 1, 2015 6:31 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Stan old shoe, your response to any messages about the Liberty are, at best,
confusing and contradictory. You seem to feel that whatever excuses Israel
offers for the war crimes are justification. You seem to believe that Israel
attack was all our fault and that the billions of dollars in aid is payment
that they deserve. On the other hand, I don't feel that they deserve any aid
what so ever.
Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Tablet
-------- Original message --------
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 06/01/2015 7:31 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Pixiehat and anyone else who wants to go back to the horrible SS Liberty event
Scroll down, its a very, very long history if you are really interested and
have an open mind..
Stanley
-----Original Message-----
From: dmarc-noreply <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, Jan 14, 2015 3:56 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
DR and everyone else
1. Check out the time line below from June 7 all the way down including the
USSR missel launcher vessel offering help.
2. No where do I see any theory mentioning the possibility that Israel was
cooking up a surprise attack on the Golan Heights?
3. No where do I see any mention on why the Egyptians didn't also object to the
Liberty in a combat area possibly sending info to Israel?
4. Not mentioned is that Egypt was routinely shelling Israel from the Golan
Heights before the war in effect daring Israel to do something?
5. Without a surprise attack Israel could expect high losses and a probable
failure of the mission to capture the Golan Heights.
6. All the fly byes before the attack could be warnings that Israel meant
business to get the Liberty out of the combat area but it stayed put?
7. In fact according to the time line NSA did order the Liberty to retreat a
minimum of 100 NM but unfortunately didn't see it until after the attack
8. The unmarked planes did not have Egyptian markings so as to blame them for
the attack especially since they didn't even protest the Liberty.
9. The horrable attack was apparently to sink or dissable the Liberty as soon
as possible.
10. The USA has legitimate reasons to be friendly with the Arabs for oil and
other financial reasons.
11. I don't see any legitimate reason why the Liberty should be so close and in
fact a combat area?
12. Israel did send an encrypted message so that Egypt couldn't see, to move
the Liberty out of its dangerous position.
13. If I am right Israel was between a hard place and a rock
14. No need to keep repeating that Israel knew it was attacking an American spy
ship.
Stanley
-----Original Message-----
From: D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Mon, Jan 12, 2015 1:10 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Comrade,
I don't understand either. It makes no sense to me.
Why would Israel tell Washington DC to move LIBERTY back before attacking?
And what difference does it matter? We weren't at war with Israel, Egypt was.
Beside the TIMELINE below I found a site with free pdf books on Liberty and
other Middle East subjects:
http://ameu.org/Resources.aspx ; ; ;
TIMELINE
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-ameu.html ; ; ;
OVERVIEW
DETAILED HISTORY
US POLICY
OBAMA’S ADMIN
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USS LIBERTY
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USS Liberty
The USS Liberty Timeline
Americans for Middle East Understanding
December 2002
June 8, 1967, Israeli forces attack the USS Liberty. They kill 34
American servicemen, wounding 171 others. It will be the highest casualty rate
ever inflicted on a U.S. naval vessel, with 7 out of every 10 crew members
killed or injured. It will also be the only peacetime attack on a U.S. naval
vessel that, to this day, the Congress of the United States of America formally
refuses to investigate. The facts, as known, are as follow:
24 May 1967. U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) orders USS
Liberty, an intelligence-gathering vessel, to depart Abidjan for eastern
Mediterranean, via Rota, Spain.
1 June 1967. Commanded by Capt. William McGonagle, Liberty
arrives at Rota to load technical support material and supplies.
2 June 1967. Liberty departs Rota at top speed of 18
knots en route to a point 13 miles off the Gaza Strip, well within
international waters.
5 June 1967, 7:45 (all times cited are local Liberty time).Israel
attacks Egypt, simultaneously putting out false reports that Egypt had attacked
first. Captain McGonagle asks Vice Admiral William Martin at Sixth Fleet
headquarters to send a destroyer as an armed escort and auxiliary communication
center, noting that Liberty’s “self defense capability limited to
four .50 caliber machine guns and small arms.”
6 June 1967. Admiral Martin replies “ Liberty is clearly
marked United States ship in international waters, not a participant in the
conflict and not a reasonable subject for attack by any nation . . . Request
for escort denied.”
7 June 1967, shortly before midnight. Office of the U.S. Defense
Attaché in Tel Aviv sends coded message to U.S. National Security Agency (NSA)
that Israel intends to attack the Liberty if her course is not
changed.
8 June 1967:
0030: U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Joint Reconnaissance Center (JRC)
orders Liberty to go from 12½ to 20 nautical miles off coast. An
error by the U.S. Army Communications Center at the Pentagon results in message
never reaching the ship.
0130: JRC orders Liberty to approach no closer than 100
miles to the coasts of Egypt and Israel. Due to misrouting it will take 16½
hours for message to reach Liberty.
0600: Israeli Nord 2501 Noratlas (flying boxcar) reconnoiters
Liberty.
0603: Reconnaissance aircraft reports to Israeli naval headquarters
that “GTR-5” is written on the ship, identifying it as an NSA intelligence
vessel.
0720: Fresh American flag is raised.
0900: Jet aircraft approaches Liberty, then veers off
towards Gaza. Liberty crewmen unable to identify markings.
1000: Two unmarked, rocket-armed, delta-winged jets circle
Liberty three times. Liberty officers can count rockets and see the
pilots, but see no identifying marks on the plane. The jets radio Israeli
headquarters that the ship is flying an American flag.
1030: Israeli “flying boxcar” with Israeli markings circles
Liberty at about 200 feet. Crew member Larry Weaver says, “I was actually
able to wave to the co-pilot, a fellow on the right-hand side of the plane. He
waved back, and actually smiled at me.”
1055: Pinchas Pinchasy, naval liaison officer at Israeli air force
headquarters, reports to Naval Headquarters that the ship cruising slowly off
El Arish is “an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy, named
Liberty, whose marking was GTR-5.”
1100 & 1130: Israeli reconnaissance aircraft again circle
Liberty.
1205: Three Israeli motor torpedo boats leave Ashdod at high speed
headed toward Liberty. They are followed by Israeli air force
fighters, loaded with 30mm cannon ammunition, rockets, and napalm.
1215 & 1245: Israeli reconnaissance aircraft again circle
Liberty.
1341: Israeli torpedo boats spot Liberty and call for an
immediate air strike.
1358: Two unmarked delta-winged Mirage jets attack
Liberty. After taking out gun mounts, they target ship’s antennae and bridge
with heat-seeking missiles.
1405: Three unmarked Dassault Mystère IIIC jets attack with napalm
and rockets. Ship tries to contact Sixth Fleet headquarters, but five of
Liberty’s six shore circuits are jammed. Radio operator manages to send
distress signal from Captain McGonagle: “Under attack by unidentified jet
aircraft, require immediate assistance.” Attack lasts approximately 22 minutes,
involving 30 to 35 sorties, killing nine men and wounding around 60. Israeli
pilot reports to base: “Great, wonderful, she’s burning, she’s burning.”
1409: Captain Joe Tully of the USS Saratoga acknowledges call for
help, dispatches four F-4 Phantom jets, and informs Liberty that
help is on the way. Within minutes U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara
orders rescue jets to return: “Tell Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back
immediately.” Rear Admiral Geis relays message and tells them to re-launch jets
in 90 minutes.
1424: Three French-built 62-ton Israeli motor torpedo boats approach
Liberty in attack formation. Because the Israeli fighters had
destroyed the American flag, Captain McGonagle orders the signalman to hoist
the “holiday ensign,” the largest flag the ship has.
1435: Torpedo boats launch five German-made 19-inch torpedoes at
Liberty. One torpedo strikes starboard directly into NSA area,
accounting for 25 of the 34 men who would be killed. Torpedo boats then circle,
machine-gunning the ship with armor-piercing projectiles for another 40
minutes.
1450: Commander of Sixth Fleet orders carriers USS America and USS
Saratoga to send aircraft to defend Liberty.
1500: NSA Sigint Command Center receives first notice of the attack
from either the America or Saratoga: “USS Liberty has been
reportedly torpedoed by unknown source in Med near 32N 33E. Request examine all
communications for possible reaction/reflections and report accordingly.”
1505: Message sent to Liberty from Sixth Fleet: “Sending
aircraft to cover you. Surface units on the way.” Liberty is off the
air and does not receive the message.
1511: First “official” notice that Liberty is under
attack reaches National Military Command Center in Washington.
1515: After the order to “prepare to abandon ship” comes over the
loudspeaker system, the lifeboats are lowered into the water. Israeli torpedo
boats move in closer and fire on them, as well as those still on deck, making
them all unusable. “I watched with horror as the floating life rafts were
riddled with holes,” recalled Lieutenant Lloyd Painter, in charge of the
evacuation. Said Petty Officer Rowley, who also witnessed the event: “They
didn’t want anyone to live.” After destroying the life rafts, the Israeli boats
departed. Next, two Israeli SA-321 Super Frelon Hornet assault helicopters
carrying soldiers in battle dress circle ship several times, then depart.
1520: Commander of Sixth Fleet announces that 12 aircraft will be
launched at 1545 to arrive near Liberty at 1715.
1532: Walt Rostow, President Johnson’s Special Assistant for
National Security Affairs, notifies the president of the attack.
1536: Israeli torpedo boats return, then leave.
1545: USS Saragota and America launch second rescue flights.
1555: Liberty regains its transmitter; still has no
receiver.
1600: Liberty transmits: “Flash, flash, flash. I pass in
the blind. We are under attack by aircraft and high-speed surface craft.”
Deputy Director Louis Tordella is informed by Deputy Director of Joint
Reconnaissance Center, Captain Vineyard, that “consideration was then being
given by some unnamed Washington authorities to sink the Liberty in
order that newspaper men would be unable to photograph her and thus inflame
public opinion against the Israelis.” Tordella makes an “impolite” comment
about the idea, writes a memo of the conversation for the record, and stores it
away.
1605: Liberty transmits: “Request immediate assistance.
Torpedo hit starboard side.”
1614: American embassy relays Israeli apology to White House,
Department of State, and Sixth Fleet that an unidentified “maybe Navy” ship has
been erroneously attacked.
1615: Two unidentified jets approach Liberty, then veer
off.
1630: Israeli jets and three torpedo boats return, offer assistance.
Captain McGonagle refuses their help. Boats leave after 12 minutes.
1639: Secretary of Defense McNamara again orders rescue planes
recalled; order is confirmed by President Johnson because “we are not going to
embarrass an ally.” Naval Air Attaché at U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv, Commander
Ernest Castle, is summoned to Israeli Defense Forces headquarters.
1717: Deputy Secretary of Defense orders that all news releases on
attack are to be made in Washington. Soon after, Israeli helicopter approaches
Liberty and requests permission to land. McGonagle refuses.
Helicopter departs.
1729: Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, commander of the Sixth Fleet in
the Mediterranean, protests decision to recall rescue planes to Secretary of
Defense McNamara. At that point President Johnson comes on the phone and says
he didn’t care if the ship sunk, he would not embarrass his allies. Admiral
Geis tells Lt. Commander David Lewis, head of the Liberty’s NSA
group, of the remark, but asks him not to repeat it until after he dies. It is
a promise Lewis will honor.
1915: Captain McGonagle, wounded and exhausted, dictates first
report on estimated casualties: 10 dead; 15 severely wounded; 75 total wounded;
undetermined missing. His estimates would prove low.
9 June 1967:
After midnight: Soviet guided missile destroyer sends flashing-light
message in English: “Do you need help?” Liberty responds: “No thank
you.” Soviets answer: “I will stand by in case you need me.”
0600: USS Navy destroyers Davis and Massey arrive.
Mid-morning: Dead and wounded are evacuated by helicopter.
1450: Israeli Lt. Col. Michael Bloch telephones Commander Castle
that Liberty, because it was not flying a flag, had been mistaken
for the Egyptian supply ship El Queseir. State Department assures Congress that
attack was accidental.
10 June 1967: Vice Admiral McCain orders Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd to
convene Navy Court of Inquiry.
11 June 1967: Admiral Kidd boards Liberty with small
staff to head Navy Court of Inquiry.
14 June 1967: Liberty arrives in Malta. Total news
blackout imposed. Rear Admiral Kidd warns crew: “You are never, repeat never,
to discuss this with anyone, not even your wives. If you do, you will be
court-martialed and will end your lives in prison or worse.” Secretary of
Defense McNamara informs media that, “Department of Defense will have no
further comment.”
15 June 1967: Secretary of State Dean Rusk tells NATO ambassadors in
Luxembourg that Israel’s attack was deliberate. His remark is reported in
European, but not U.S. papers.
18 June 1967: Israeli Court of Inquiry exonerates Israeli government
and all those involved, saying that its torpedo boats erroneously reported the
Liberty’s speed at 30 knots instead of 5, and that the
Liberty flew no flag and had no identifying markings. Later, Israel will honor
Motor Torpedo Boat 203, the one that fired the deadly torpedo at the
Liberty, by putting its wheel and bell on display in its naval museum, among
those maritime items of which it is most proud.
July 1967: Shortly after the burial of six Liberty
crewmen in Arlington National Cemetery, a monument is erected describing the
six as having “Died in the Eastern Mediterranean.” Liberty survivors
complain that the marking is evasive and improper.
September 1967: State Department legal adviser Carl Salans finds
many discrepancies with the Israeli report. His report is classified Top
Secret.
11 June 1968: Captain McGonagle is awarded the Congressional Medal
of Honor. The Medal, usually presented by the President of the United States at
the White House, is presented by the Secretary of the Navy during a hastily
arranged ceremony at the Washington D.C. Navy Yard. Admiral Thomas H. Moorer,
the Chief of Naval Operations, calls the way the Medal is presented a
back-handed slap. “Everyone else received their medal at the White House,”
Moorer will later observe. “President Johnson must have been concerned about
the reaction of the Israeli lobby.”
1980: National Security Agency Director Marshall Carter tells
investigative author James Bamford that, regarding the attack on the
Liberty, “There was no other answer than that it was deliberate.”
1981: National Security Agency review, “Attack on a Sigint
Collector, the USS Liberty Incident,” rejects the Israeli Court of
Inquiry’s “mistake” theory and accuses Israeli fighter pilots and torpedo boat
crewmen and commanders of perjury.
1982: Israeli senior lead pilot approaches former Congressman Pete
McCloskey and admits that he recognized the Liberty as American
immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American
flag and continue his attack. He said he refused to do so and returned to base,
where he was arrested.
6 October 1982: A new headstone for the six Liberty crew
members at Arlington National Cemetery is unveiled. This one reads: “Killed USS
Liberty June 8, 1967.”
1986: Lt. Commander Walter H. Jacobsen writes in Naval Law Review:
“To speculate on the motives of an attack group that uses unmarked planes and
deprives helpless survivors of life rafts raises disturbing possibilities,
including the one that the Liberty crew was not meant to survive the
attack...”
6 November 1991: Columnists Evans and Novak publish interview with
Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967, in which Porter says that
during or immediately after the attack on the Liberty the CIA
station chief showed him transcripts of intercepted Israeli messages. One has
Israel ordering the attack on the Liberty, another has an Israeli
pilot replying it’s an American ship. When the order to attack is repeated, the
pilot insists he can see the American flag. The pilot is told again: “Attack
it.”
8 June 1997: Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, appointed Chief of Naval
Operations shortly after the attack on the Liberty, tells a reunion
of survivors: “I have to conclude that it was Israel’s intent to sink the
Liberty and leave as few survivors as possible. Israel knew perfectly well
that the ship was American.”
November 1998: Captain McGonagle breaks his long silence: “After
many years I finally believe that the attack was deliberate. I don’t think
there has been an adequate investigation of the incident . . . The flag was
flying prior to the attack...” McGonagle will die four months later, on March
3, 1999.
References
Two 12-page articles have appeared in AMEU’s bimonthly publication
The Link:
“The USS Liberty Affair,” by James E. Ennes, Jr. This issue is available in PDF
download from the AMEU website. Search by author or year (1984).
“Remember the Liberty,” by John Borne, with an introductory memorandum by
Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This
issue is available in PDF download from the AMEU website. Search by author or
year (1997).
Ennes, James, Assault on the Liberty, 2002 edition. Available from
AMEU, $25.00 Ennes was the lieutenant on watch at the time the Israelis first
attacked the Liberty. A full chapter is devoted to Israel’s motives
for knowingly attacking the ship.
Bamford, James, Body of Secrets, 2001 edition. Available from AMEU,
$19.95. Bamford offers several important pieces of information previous
classified. On page 226, e.g., he tells of President Johnson’s reaction:
At 11:29 A.M. (5:29 P.M.), Johnson took the unusual step of ordering the JCS to
recall the fighters while the Liberty still lay smoldering, sinking,
fearful of another attack, without aid, and with its decks covered with the
dead, the dying, and the wounded. Onboard the flagship of the Sixth Fleet, Rear
Admiral Lawrence R. Geis, who commanded the carrier force in the Mediterranean,
was angry and puzzled at the recall and protested it to Secretary of Defense
Robert S. McNamara.
Admiral Geis was shocked by what he heard next. According to information
obtained for Body of Secrets, “President Lyndon Johnson came on with a comment
that he didn’t care if the ship sank, he would not embarrass his allies.”
Admiral Geis told Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, the head of the NSA group
on the Liberty, about the comment but asked him to keep it secret
until after Geis died. It was a promise that Lewis kept.
Tito, Howard. The Loss of Liberty. This is a 50-minute video made in
2001, and includes graphic footage of the attack, and interviews with high
ranking naval personnel. The video is also available through AMEU for $22.50.
Triplett, William, “Death on the USS Liberty,” in “VVA Veteran,”
Sept-Oct. 2002. Offers chilling interviews with survivors. Larry Weaver, a
21-year-old bosun’s mate on the Liberty, who was not expected to
live, was airlifted to the USS AMERICA, where he immediately underwent the
first of 26 major surgeries. He was subsequently flown to American hospitals in
Crete, Italy and Germany, and then sent to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital for
recovery. He recalls:
“I was four days in intensive care in a wheelchair in Philadelphia, and I was
told an admiral wanted to talk to me,” Weaver recalls. “I went to meet him in a
room and he closed the door and deadbolted it, which kind of scared me. He then
took his stars off, saying, “I’m not an admiral now. Tell me what you know.”
Weaver told him, emphasizing, among other points, that throughout most of the
attack, because of his position on the ship, he had had a clear view of the
Stars and Stripes flying off the ship’s bow, clearly identifying the
Liberty as American. The Israelis claim the spy ship was flying no flag. “The
admiral then said, ‘Okay,’ and put his stars back on and he pointed at me. And
he said, ‘Larry, if you repeat this or talk to anyone about this you’ll be put
into prison and we’ll throw away the key.’”
Green, Stephen. i>Taking Sides: America’s Secret Relations with a Militant
Israel. Published in 1984 by William Morrow and Company, Inc., this work
remains a primary source on the attack and cover-up.
Borne, John. The USS Liberty: Dissenting History Versus Official
History. Published in 1995, this book focuses on the contradictions in the
various official explanations that have been given for Israel’s attack on the
Liberty.
The official web site for the USS Liberty is: www.uss
; ; ; Liberty.org.
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Interview with Captain Boston, the 1967 Chief Attorney in the
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Video Documentary: Dead in the Water
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Booklets, Flyers, & More on the USS Liberty
An Evidentiary Study of the USS Liberty Attack
Arlington National Cemetery: William Loren McGonagle
Q & A – Commonly Asked Questions about the Attack on the USS
Liberty
Findings of the Independent Commission of Inquiry
Affidavit – Counsel to the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry’s
investigation
Book – Assault on the Liberty
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Security Agency
Documentary – Dead in the Water
USS Liberty Photo Album
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On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Redacted sender Sblumen123@xxxxxxx for
DMARC <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
JS
Figured out why you would post such an asinine question. It is because it would
kill you
to give an inch in a duel with me and I believe with anyone else?
Stanley
In a message dated 1/11/2015 8:46:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
schalestock@xxxxxxxx writes:
Stan,
Not even sure what you mean when you use the word "think".
On the one hand you say, "do you really think that Israel did not tell
Washington to move the Liberty back before attacking?"
Could you please explain the logic of that? Why in the world would Israel tell
Washington to move the Liberty back before attacking?!
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "sblumen123@xxxxxxx"
for DMARC)
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 17:06:33 -0500
JS
Which report did you and DR pick? Also what is your comment on the order for
the Liberty to move 100 miles back which they
didn't receive until after the attack because they werent monitoring the right
frequency and do you really think that Israel did
not tell Washington to move the Liberty back before attacking? Think, think,
think.
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: schalestock < schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee < sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sun, Jan 11, 2015 1:25 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Like a whore screwing for love.
JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." < n1ea@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 11:34:13 -0500
An idealist for money, now that's rich.
DR
On Jan 11, 2015 9:50 AM, "Redacted sender sblumen123@xxxxxxx
for DMARC" < dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
RR
There are a lot of contradictory reports on the Pollard case by Googling, check
6. on the FBI reports over a 9 month period interegating Jonathan
in short saying he was an idealist not a for profit spy. You pick which one you
believe and I will do the same.
Stanley
-----Original Message-----
From: D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sat, Jan 10, 2015 3:05 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: USS Liberty
The person I am talking about is Jonathan Pollard.
You have to remember the U.S. Government did not releases all of the Secrets
the Mr. Pollard sold to Israel. Israel admitted to paying Pollard for secrets.
Just because Israel is an ally we do not just give them all of our secrets. It
wasn't up to Mr. Pollard to determine that Israel should have our above Top
Secret military hardware and systems information.
The US Government knows what Jonathan had access to, and Jonathan knows exactly
what he gave away.
We here on this net have pieces of Secret and Top Secret and parts of Above Top
Secret information. We know from our training that even those little bits can
pin point a project above Top Secret. We've traveled to a place and dropped
off military hardware for US Marines that later made the headlines. We know
not to reveal secure and not secure communications - it's a crime.
You want someone who did what you did and committed the crime that you avoided
committing to go free?
Here is Jonathan Pollard's Wikipedia article.
Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
; ; ;
And you think Jonathan Pollard's selling intelligence about our defenses and
other matters to South Africa, and attempted to do so
with Pakistan. [12] is a
minor offense? He also attempted to broker arms deals with South Africa,
Argentina, Taiwan, Pakistan, and
Iran. [9] as well as Israel.
He comes up for parole this year.
He was a civilian employee who was well paid and who cashed in on his job, sold
secrets for money.
