DR
In this case I have to side with RR as a matter of full free speech, not partial
free speech. I know most everyone who opposes RR gets frustrated because
either he doesn't respond OR he responds in a way that dosn't satisfy us.
-----Original Message-----
From: D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@xxxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Dec 22, 2016 12:43 am
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
RR,
You made certain statements and I responded.
You talk around what I and Doug sent you, but you never respond to the whole
thing.
If you want I will find the messages you made those statements in.
But you never answer, never, you don't say: "I did say that and I now see I was
wrong."
You just pivot and don't answer.
73
DR
On Dec 21, 2016 11:50 AM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
I have no interest in the other links. I have explained why 3 times already.
If you have something to say about what I said about the first link then say it.
If you say that Jesus said he was God then I'll take your word for it.
If you say he never said that then I'll take your word for it.
You and Stan both keep repeating the same things over and over again. I have
other things to do.
You accuse me of PIVOTING, which I assume means changing the subject or
answering one question with another which I believe is exactly what you and
Stan do all the time. I answer your question about alleged mass graves and you
answer with something about contemporarianous references to Jesus. I answer
your question about that and you answer with something about whether Jesus ever
said he was God. In Stan's case when I answer one of his questions he comes
back with 5 or 6 more questions. It appears that your strategy is to overwhelm
me with dumb questions and if I fail to respond then that means that whatever
you say must be right and I am wrong, case closed.
I've said everything I can say on these subjects and have no more left to say.
Believe whatever you want to believe. Nobody is stopping you.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 21, 2016 9:41 AM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
Go read my message. You say you could only find that. I have shown you
another.
Do you always ignore new information?
Also go through the other links that Doug provided and answer the objections
that I gave you about your previous comments about Jesus claims that he said
he was God.
For a person to just spout out information and not be willing to discuss it and
be closed minded about the new information is sheer ignorant.
If you are ignorant, perhaps the time has come to stop being so.
73
DR
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
I have already responded.
I told you why I did not bother to look at the other 5 links, twice.
As for contemporarianous references to Jesus I refer you to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
An overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars and Near East historians,
applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the
historicity of Jesus is more probable than not, although they differ about the
beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his
life that have been described in the gospels.
The only contemporarianous "proof" I was able to find was this:
Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls
"probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."
Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that
had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:
Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called
Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin,
suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ...
Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the
moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but
even in Rome....
contemporarianous NOT. There are Roman records of every shekel collected in
taxes, but nothing about Jesus.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 21, 2016 2:42 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
No, Ron.
Please respond to the emails.
You said something, people responded with a challenge.
You made statements that have been challenged, you haven't responded, others
are saying you've not been telling the truth.
I say you've been caught in a lie several times over.
No dodging by pivoting. Answer the challenges.
Either that or admit you were wrong about these subjects.
Easy.
Are you a man who can correct his actions?
73
DR
On Dec 20, 2016 9:02 PM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Whatever you say.
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 20, 2016 7:26 PM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
RR,
So you have looked at one link. Look at the remaining five links.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat yourself because you PIVOT like a
politician.
Here it is:
You said (before) that there was no contemporarianous recording of the
historical Jesus.
I gave you the information and cited quotation from Flavius Josephus - who is
contempory in the historical sense, he wrote after the fact but even with
modern news, guess what? - it's ALL after the fact. That is what news is. I
grant you that if Jesus was crucified today it would be live at five, film at
eleven.
The other thing was you said: Jesus never claimed he was God.
I gave you the quotes.
You've been directly questioned on this about ten times now and you haven't
answered any of mine, you've pivoted on each one.
You were WRONG, RR.
You often are wrong.
You do not look at criticism, learn from it, and reeducate yourself. You're
stuck in being wrong.
73
DR
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
Stan said he did not believe me when I said that I found the book online. I
told him that he needed to do was ask me for the link, he didn't need to call
me a liar. His age has nothing to do with it.
As for Doug Losty's 6 links, I examined the first one, which at first glance
appeared to be the most convincing, but found it to be bogus and I explained
why. I have seen enough of these articles to know they are all the same. The
only proof they offer, if they offer any proof at all, are eyewitness testimony
by people whose names are never mentioned.
It would be very easy to prove there really are mass graves, if they contained
Jews, and even the cause of death by forensic and DNA testing. But they say
they cannot do this because Jewish law prohibits disturbing a grave. They won't
even allow a non-Jew to do this.
To reiterate, the first link was about a television show produced in 2014 where
they dug up some bones in a places that are claimed to be mass graves of Jews.
They dug 3 shallow (6 inch deep?) trenches and found a few bones which they
promptly buried again. No forensic or DNA tests were performed, nor any other
tests.
In 1999 the area where these mass graves are supposedly located was scanned
with Ground Penetrating Radar and they reported finding no mass graves. Another
GPR scan was performed in 2010, and once again no mass graves were found, only
some bones and ashes near the surface where the 2014 TV show found the bones.
As far as I know there are no writings about Christ appeared until after his
death.
"The earliest to survive are the letters of Saint Paul (50–60 C.E.) and the
Gospel according to Mark (65–70 C.E.). These were followed around 80–90 C.E. by
the longer Gospels of Matthew and Luke (the latter accompanied by the Acts of
the Apostles), along with a lost source that scholars call "Q," which contained
sayings and parables of Jesus and some episodes from his life. Saint John's
Gospel appeared around 85–95 C.E., as did the letters of James, Peter, and
John; Paul's letter to the Hebrews; and the Revelation of Saint John (the
Apocalypse). "
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 20, 2016 5:13 PM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
Stan,
I notice that RR snarled at you because you, a 91 year old senior and veteran
could not find the book, but no one has but reminded RR to respond to Doug
Losty's six links or my message where I refute his statement that there was no
contemporary history of Jesus who called himself the Christ, and that Jesus had
never claimed to be God, he did and I have cited just one place in the Bible
that is very convincing because it was the reason the Sanhedrin said he had
blasphemed and that the penalty under Jewish law was death, but as you know,
they were under Roman law.
He hasn't responded to any of that, he just lashes out at you.
73
DR
